This will be long because I have a few questions. Anyone who would like to comment on this please do I'm looking for as much info as I can get before making a decision and I feel like this would fit better in here than starting a whole new thread.
I have the chance right now to buy a second glock 17, or to sell the 17 I currently have to buy two 19's. It will cost me the same to go either way so I'm not worried about price. The only preference that I have for one gun over the other is I like the size of the frame on the 17, especially after a grip reduction/undercut/removal of the finger grooves/etc.. My hand fits on the 19 frame just fine though and I can shoot both guns equally well. The gun will fill two roles, I will be shooting with it competitively in an owb holster and it will also be my daily carry gun. I will probably wind up "rolanding" these guns at some point or at least that is the plan as of right now, but I will try to keep the internals stock or as close to stock as I can. @DocGKR I know you have a hard stance that the 19 is currently the best gun to do these modifications to, but even Roland himself says that his gun was specifically built for him. I agree with @Longeye that a 19/23 slide on a full size frame would probably be perfect for me at least in theory but I would have no way of knowing for sure without being able to shoot it to verify that. My question is not which gun is the best out of the two or even which one is better to modify, but which gun is the best gun for ME to modify? I would think the best person to answer that question is me, but the problem is I don't even know what questions I should be asking myself. How do I figure out which gun, the 17 or the 19, is the right one for me? What questions should I be asking myself to find that out? And then how do I test out that information to verify I've made a good choice? I have access to a factory 17 and 19 but not to a RS 17 or 19. What are some things I should be paying attention to? How easy is it to maintain positive control of the gun? How good is my grip? How fast/accurate I am out of iwb/owb holsters? Split times and accuracy? Reload times? How efficient I am working the weapons controls? How concealable each one is for my style of dress? Are any of these good questions and are there better or more questions I can and should be asking myself? If I can do noticeably better with one gun, lets say the 17, than I can with the 19, it may be worth it to me to go with the 17 over the 19, even if I get a slight mechanical performance increase out of the 19. Does that make any sense lol? I also wanted to ask for some subjective opinions from @Longeye and @Ephraim R. If I read your posts correctly, you both either own or have shot a RS 17. How would you compare the RS 17 to the RS 19 if you don't mind sharing some opinions. @Ephraim R. I couldn't tell in your post if you were trying to say that the 34 was snappier than the RS 17 or if it was the other way around, I got that the 34 was snappier than a RS 19.
I stumbled across this forum from a search that led me to this thread, so I thought I'd share a pic of mine just for fun. This is not a KKM comp, it's one I made (the joys of having a machine shop at home) but the size and performance is similar.
This is my daily AIWB carry gun, and I typically only attach a light at night. I usually don't carry it with the comp just because I use a suppressor often, but do like the flatter shooting characteristics.
How do I figure out which gun, the 17 or the 19, is the right one for me? Get a coin out of your pocket...
What questions should I be asking myself to find that out? What is the 80% tasking? The 17/22 frame is easier to grip and control for me- with size 11 hands. The 19/23 is easier to conceal. When I want to shoot a lot I prefer the 17/22. If I am carrying much more than I shoot, the 19 is the better choice. That said, I carry more than shoot, and have sold off the 19/23's in favor of the overall handling characteristics of the 17/22.
What are some things I should be paying attention to?
How easy is it to maintain positive control of the gun? Depends on what positive control means: Shooting or combatives (gun take away)? I find the 17/22 preferable for control reasons in both categories. My pinky floats around looking for a place to be useful on the 19/23 frame. For someone with smaller hands, the 19/23 might be a great fit, and the extra grip length of the 17/22 would be wasted in their narrower hands.
How good is my grip? Related to above. But, this maybe the place to talk about the benefits of stippling.
How fast/accurate I am out of iwb/owb holsters? No, ask how secure of a grip you achieve from these holsters. Speed and accuracy is merely a symptom of that initial grip.
Split times and accuracy? Up to you. At some point split times don't mean squat. Centering the first two shots out of the holster is the more critical.
Reload times? There won't be a nickel's worth of difference here. Both platform sizes have identical mechanics.
How concealable each one is for my style of dress? That is something you have to decide.
If I can do noticeably better with one gun, lets say the 17, than I can with the 19, it may be worth it to me to go with the 17 over the 19, even if I get a slight mechanical performance increase out of the 19. Does that make any sense lol? If you are suggesting that the slightly decreased concealability is a worth while tradeoff when practical accuracy and general controllability are significantly different between the two options, then yes, it makes sense.
I also wanted to ask for some subjective opinions from @Longeye and @Ephraim R. If I read your posts correctly, you both either own or have shot a RS 17. How would you compare the RS 17 to the RS 19 if you don't mind sharing some opinions.
There you have it. I will note that I have run 17/22G3 and 19/23G3 platforms since 2000. I have ended up standardizing on the G22G4 and M&P FS .40 across the board, with the caveat that I carry a Shield in .40 for those occasions that require ultimate
discretion in concealability. The 19/23 is too vanilla for my particular needs. It does everything well, but nothing great. I have put many thousands of rounds through a pair of G23G3s and a number of thousand rounds through a G19G3. The G22G4 and the Shield both excel in their roles. If I was ever forced by circumstance, policy or legislation to trim down to one S/N, then the 19/23G4 would get revisited.
I'm thinking of getting my 19 stippled when I send it to ATEi for slide work, but they have no pictures of the different levels of agressiveness they offer. Does anyone know if there are pictures to be found anywhere or have any experience themselves with the different levels? Thanks
ATEi actually has "Roland Special" as an entire package you can buy & has pics. I am assuming the stippling pics they've included with their Roland Special is what you'll be getting, especially if you mention it. http://ateiguns.com/product/roland-special/
The only thing I'm missing is the Comp. I sent my Glock slide and RMR off to ATEi a couple weeks ago roughly. All that I'm missing is the KKM Barrel/Comp. I'm not sure if I'll do trigger upgrade or not... I'm very excited to try it out.
Just put everything together. I'm running the Aimpoint H1 instead of the RMR. For me, it works much better. It has taken a bit to get this all together. KKM is literally SLAMMED right now. I was told they have one mill that is churning out barrels as hard and fast as they can. It took me 6 weeks to get mine. I'm running the following:
Glock Gen 3 RTF
Unity Tactical slide
TTI trigger/spring kit-breaks at a SMOOTH 4#
Freya/ Raven magwell
I'll take it out today and wring it out. My duty ammo is Speer Gold Dot 124 +P. Should help the comp out quite a bit.
I'll run some drills and get some shots on the timer. The litmus test for me is the plate rack. My fastest ever, clean run has been 3.1. Draw to first hit at 1.5ish. I have hundreds of runs on plates, so this is a very known drill for me. I really think that will tell me how much, if any, the barrel/comp works. Not saying the plate rack is the be all end all, just that it is a known, measurable time. Splits will be faster or not. Timer doesn't lie. If anyone cares, I can post times and splits here to compare. Fingers crossed.
Ok, took the new shooter out today and formed some very strong impressions. I ran about 300 rounds of Speer 124gr +P through it. I can say 100%, unequivocally, this pistol is much easier to shoot fast than before. Just a few numbers to consider: draw to first shot is still around .98-1 sec. that didn't change, nor should it. What changed was splits. I'm able to get draw and 2 shots in 1.19, and draw, shoot 2, change targets, shoot 2 in 1.74. That's 4 shots on 2 targets in .74 seconds, minus the draw. Splits are a steady .18-.19 range. Those are faster than before the comp.
I have read many posts where people say "it's only a 9mm, and the comp can't make a difference on JUST a 9mm." I was a bit skeptical too. After shooting it quite a bit, I can say it is MUCH softer. Tracks easier, and is far more controllable. Is it earthshaking? No, but it's faster, and the clock doesn't lie. If I can put shots on bad guys faster and easier, I'll take it. The difference of .03 may or may not be a lot to some. Whether it's worth the money is up to the person to decide. I can't make that decision for anyone. For me, I'm very happy with it. It's a very noticeable improvement.
I shoot somewhere around 300-500 rounds a week of pistol. I feel like it is a very worthwhile upgrade, and I'm a believer in the concept.
Don't know if this will answer any questions, or help anyone decide, but I will definitely be shooting this a ton, and seeing what else I can do with it. Thank for reading my ramblings.
I ordered directly from KKM. I got an email about 3 weeks later that states "your order has been completed". I thought that meant "woo-hoo" barrel enrt. No, it doesn't. It means they charged my card. I called KKM when I didn't hear anything for 3-4 days after that e-mail. I kept looking for a shipping notification. I was advised by KKM that e-mail is badly worded, and it wasn't "complete" per se. It just means I was charged. I was another 3weeks out from when that e-mail came to seeing my barrel.
I have to say that EVERYIME I called, I got a person, and every time, they were very cool and communicated with me. My feeling is that they are a very small outfit, and they are slammed. Guy I talked to said the "Roland" has just slammed them. They, literally, couldn't keep up. I guess that's a testament to forums like this, and social media.
I can say, after shooting 600-700 rounds between Sun-Mon, the 6 week wait was very worth it. I would do it again knowing what I know now.
Yesterday, 3/20/2017, I set a new personal record on the plate rack. My PR was 3.1. I shot a 3.01 yesterday. Maybe not a HUGE difference, but a noticeable, legitimate, decrease in time. The clock doesn't lie.