Introducing: Project Nemesis - P320 Roland Special

[rudukai13]

The issues I have with concealing the pistol in this current form factor generally stem from my being not the largest-statured individual, and are two-fold;

- The full-length grip, plus magwell, plus extended base pads do not conceal at ALL under even loose clothing, making it appear as though I have a very suspiciously gun-shaped tumor under my ribs. That can obviously be remedied by switching to a compact grip module and using stock base pads, but leaves the other issue of...

- In AIWB carry, the length of the X300U and comp extend a bit too far down below my pantsline and really dig into me when sitting. This would be remedied by going to a standard Compact model slide and barrel length.

By no means do I have any intention of getting rid of this current version of the pistol, it's exactly what I've wanted for a very long time. Unfortunately though exactly what I wanted doesn't lend itself well to concealed carry, so I'm looking at options for a P320-based carry package as well. The idea of using the same FCU and thus having the exact same trigger feel across both pistols is quite appealing...

 

[MojoNixon]

The barrel length of the X-Carry is the same as the standard Carry or Compact model, about four inches (think G19). With the inclusion of the compensator it has effectively a five inch barrel length, about the same as the X-Five model or a G34

Thanks. I think my SilencerCo barrel for my G19 is 4.5” overall length with the comp is the same or substantially similar to a G34.
At 6’3” I don’t have any issues with printing in the appendix position with the comp, TLR-1HL and + 5 Arredondo extensions for either G17 or G19 mags.
That’s enough about my blaster. This is about yours.

 

[rudukai13]

Thanks. I think my SilencerCo barrel for my G19 is 4.5” overall length with the comp is the same or substantially similar to a G34.

Yeah so the various P320 sizes are very similar to Glock's range, so you can think of it this way;

Glock 34 = P320 X-Five
Glock 17 = P320 Fullsize/X-VTAC
Glock 19X = P320 Carry/X-Carry
Glock 19 = P320 Compact
Glock 26 = P320 SubCompact

Dimensions and capacities of each different model are very similar if not identical to the Glock counterparts

 

[MojoNixon]

Yeah so the various P320 sizes are very similar to Glock's range, so you can think of it this way;

Glock 34 = P320 X-Five
Glock 17 = P320 Fullsize/X-VTAC
Glock 19X = P320 Carry/X-Carry
Glock 19 = P320 Compact
Glock 26 = P320 SubCompact

Dimensions and capacities of each different model are very similar if not identical to the Glock counterparts

Good info thanks. I admit until you started this documentation of your project I hadn’t really given the P320 series a hard look.

 

[Ryan St.Jean]

1. It will be yes once it's properly fitted because it will have marginally tighter tolerances.

2. With the X-Carry and X-Five no, when you remove the slide plate you remove the rear iron sight with it. The actual body of the Romeo1 has a notch engineered into it that can act as the rear sight and will cowitness with the proper height front sight though, so you still effectively have backup irons.

3. It had some teething issues when it first came out but all the anecdotal evidence I've heard of recent samples of the optics would seem to indicate it's good for use. While the placement of the buttons could be an issue for right handed shooters carrying AIWB, this happens to be one of the very few instances where my being a southpaw comes in handy (you'll notice in the pictures I've also swapped the mag release button over to the right side of the pistol, works vastly better than having to use my trigger finger to drop a mag...)

At the risk of being a dick (which I will power through) to question #1 you use the word ‘will’ but forgot to include ‘probably’ or ‘I hope’ in the mix.

 

[rudukai13]

At the risk of being a dick (which I will power through) to question #1 you use the word ‘will’ but forgot to include ‘probably’ or ‘I hope’ in the mix.

Ryan, fair point. At the time it was certainly a hopeful expectation - Now that I've had some time to shoot with the new barrel and put a not-insignificant number of rounds through it, I can say more certainly that the Bar-Sto barrel is in fact slightly more accurate than the factory Sig barrel.

Mojo, I've been researching different platforms and pistol lines for a span of a few years leading up to the selection of the X-Carry as the platform for this project so at this point I've amassed all kinds of technical comparisons and details across various manufacturer's handgun lines.

The issue with attempting to conceal the pistol as of right now is it's like trying to conceal a Glock 34 with X300U and not-minimalist magwell, which some people certainly can do - I am not one of those people. But considering the purchase I just made, that issue will be resolved in the next week or so...

 

[rudukai13]

At 6’3” I don’t have any issues with printing in the appendix position with the comp, TLR-1HL and + 5 Arredondo extensions for either G17 or G19 mags.
That’s enough about my blaster. This is about yours.

Please feel free to talk about other pistols by comparison and even post some pictures if you'd like! The more information that can be amassed together in one spot to give other shooters as much information on this platform and how it compares to other popular pistols the better as far as I'm concerned

 

[Ryan St.Jean]

Ryan, fair point. At the time it was certainly a hopeful expectation - Now that I've had some time to shoot with the new barrel and put a not-insignificant number of rounds through it, I can say more certainly that the Bar-Sto barrel is in fact slightly more accurate than the factory Sig barrel.

- Good deal. I’m glad it worked out like it should. Improvements that don’t pan out are a big sad face.

 

[Ryan St.Jean]

Please feel free to talk about other pistols by comparison and even post some pictures if you'd like! The more information that can be amassed together in one spot to give other shooters as much information on this platform and how it compares to other popular pistols the better as far as I'm concerned

Seems like the light and red dot would maybe affect comfort of carry but shouldn’t affect printing. A big mag well and a mag extension would be negatives on the printing front.

 

[rudukai13]

Seems like the light and red dot would maybe affect comfort of carry but shouldn’t affect printing. A big mag well and a mag extension would be negatives on the printing front.

The red dot itself doesn't effect the concealability of the gun either way, as it sits in between the grip of the gun and the spare magazine in a AIWB holster. The problem with the length of the X300U and compensator is that it effectively means I have to wear my pants lower than I usually would in order to fit at all, and digs in extremely uncomfortably when I'm sitting. I'll try to get another picture up tonight to show what I mean

 

[Ryan St.Jean]

The red dot itself doesn't effect the concealability of the gun either way, as it sits in between the grip of the gun and the spare magazine in a AIWB holster. The problem with the length of the X300U and compensator is that it effectively means I have to wear my pants lower than I usually would in order to fit at all, and digs in extremely uncomfortably when I'm sitting. I'll try to get another picture up tonight to show what I mean

The part of the gun below the belt being longer means you have to wear your pants lower? I don’t own a Rowland (yet!) but I do carry AIWB and that doesn’t make sense to me. Seems like a longer gun would move your pants/ beltline up to get clearance for your legs n junk. Am I reading this wrong?

 

[rudukai13]

The part of the gun below the belt being longer means you have to wear your pants lower? I don’t own a Rowland (yet!) but I do carry AIWB and that doesn’t make sense to me. Seems like a longer gun would move your pants/ beltline up to get clearance for your legs n junk. Am I reading this wrong?

It's entirely possible I'm not stating it correctly...I'll try to illustrate later tonight with a pic

 

[rudukai13]

Ok, hopefully these couple of pictures help illustrate the issues I'd have carrying this gun in the current form. The holster pictured is a TRex Arms Sidecar light-bearing model. First picture is of the holster how it should be - inside the waistband, with an undershirt, and an average representation of the kind of shirt I'd wear day-to-day. This illustrates the problem with the fullsize grip+magwell+extended base pads fairly well;



"Hey, is that a gun in your pants, or - Nope that's definitely a gun in your pants..."

Now, to show what I'm talking about as far as the flashlight/compensator being a bit too long, here's with the overshirt removed and the holster moved to the outside of the waistband (not how one would actually carry with it);



There are two problems here - One, when I sit, the part of the holster that surrounds the flashlight bezel and the compensator itself dig very deeply into my legs. Ryan, to your suggestion that I pull my pants up to make clearance for the gun, if I do that then the crotch seam of the pants cuts into my groin very uncomfortably, so that's not an option either. If the gun was just the standard profile Compact slide with a flashlight that doesn't extend beyond the end of the frame, the overall package would terminate much higher up and it would be more comfortable for sitting. The other issue might not be as readily apparent - Take a look at where the exposed, unshielded, gets-scalding-hot-after-a-couple-mags-during-training compensator is resting...I donno about you, gentlemen, but that is not where I want anything that could very reasonably be described as "too hot to touch"...

As an aside, in regards to the Sidecar holster itself - the fit, finish, draw, and retention adjustability are all phenomenal. I can give a solid recommendation for these holsters to anyone looking for an AIWB holster+mag carrier combo piece of kydex. Just my personal physical build and the current construction of this gun don't lend themselves well to this (or any holster) for comfortable concealed carry

 

[MojoNixon]

Ok, hopefully these couple of pictures help illustrate the issues I'd have carrying this gun in the current form. The holster pictured is a TRex Arms Sidecar light-bearing model. First picture is of the holster how it should be - inside the waistband, with an undershirt, and an average representation of the kind of shirt I'd wear day-to-day. This illustrates the problem with the fullsize grip+magwell+extended base pads fairly well;

View attachment 2635

"Hey, is that a gun in your pants, or - Nope that's definitely a gun in your pants..."

Now, to show what I'm talking about as far as the flashlight/compensator being a bit too long, here's with the overshirt removed and the holster moved to the outside of the waistband (not how one would actually carry with it);

View attachment 2636

There are two problems here - One, when I sit, the part of the holster that surrounds the flashlight bezel and the compensator itself dig very deeply into my legs. Ryan, to your suggestion that I pull my pants up to make clearance for the gun, if I do that then the crotch seam of the pants cuts into my groin very uncomfortably, so that's not an option either. If the gun was just the standard profile Compact slide with a flashlight that doesn't extend beyond the end of the frame, the overall package would terminate much higher up and it would be more comfortable for sitting. The other issue might not be as readily apparent - Take a look at where the exposed, unshielded, gets-scalding-hot-after-a-couple-mags-during-training compensator is resting...I donno about you, gentlemen, but that is not where I want anything that could very reasonably be described as "too hot to touch"...

As an aside, in regards to the Sidecar holster itself - the fit, finish, draw, and retention adjustability are all phenomenal. I can give a solid recommendation for these holsters to anyone looking for an AIWB holster+mag carrier combo piece of kydex. Just my personal physical build and the current construction of this gun don't lend themselves well to this (or any holster) for comfortable concealed carry

I’ve got some thoughts on this brewing in my head but it’s 0100 and I need some sleep to get things organized in my brain. I’ll come back to this tomorrow.

 

[krax]

Could be a number of things.

It could be that a full-size gun with magwell and extended mag is just too much to conceal with your body type. A G19-sized frame with a flush magazine should work. AIWB allows most people to carry more gun than they could on/behind their hip, but there's limitations.

I'm not sold on the sidecar holster. I think part of the issue you're having is that the attached magazine carrier is keeping the claw attachment on the other end from doing it's job. If you want an attached magazine carrier, the Phlster Flex, with the right holster, is an overall better way to do it.

So I'd solve the holster thing first, then tackle the pistol (which may be as simple as using a standard mag and a smaller magwell).

Also, patterned shirts conceal better than solids as a rule.

 

[rudukai13]

Could be a number of things.

It could be that a full-size gun with magwell and extended mag is just too much to conceal with your body type. A G19-sized frame with a flush magazine should work. AIWB allows most people to carry more gun than they could on/behind their hip, but there's limitations.

I'm not sold on the sidecar holster. I think part of the issue you're having is that the attached magazine carrier is keeping the claw attachment on the other end from doing it's job. If you want an attached magazine carrier, the Phlster Flex, with the right holster, is an overall better way to do it.

So I'd solve the holster thing first, then tackle the pistol (which may be as simple as using a standard mag and a smaller magwell).

Also, patterned shirts conceal better than solids as a rule.

All very good points. It is my intention to purchase a Tier 1 Concealed Agis (https://www.tier1concealed.com/collections/allholsters/products/agis), with the flexible/break-away center line, as another option. Shortly after I ordered and received the Sidecar I started hearing/seeing a lot of reviews about shooters switching from the Sidecar to the Agis, specifically because of the flex point between the gun and mag.

I do think switching over to a Compact sized grip module and standard 15-round magazine (unextended) would do wonders for my printing problems, but it wouldn't do much to solve the issue of the holster/comp digging into my legs or the exposed compensator being exactly where I don't want it after hotting up from a couple mag dumps...

I did not know that patterns are better for concealment than solid colors, but that absolutely makes sense - Break up the outline of any printing that does occur and whatnot. Noted for future reference!

 

[rudukai13]

Krax, to your note on using a smaller magwell - I've been keeping my eyes open online for other ones. The P320 platform is gaining in popularity with civilian shooters and law enforcement (and obviously Mil), but the aftermarket hasn't quite caught up yet. I don't doubt we will start to see a lot more aftermarket parts and components for the platform in the very near future, but as it stands currently there are only a couple options for P320 magwells - The OEM Sig version that fits the X-Series grips as I currently have, and a couple from Springer Precision - Which aren't much more minimal than the Sig X-Series option;

https://shop.springerprecision.com/category.sc?categoryId=83

Springer's ESP magwell will fit both the Fullsize and Compact P320 grip modules, but it's still a competition-oriented magwell, not intended for concealment as we've seen in recent years for the G19 and a few M&P options

 

[krax]

Magwells can enhance your reload, but they're not a critical piece. If it was between not carrying a gun or carrying one without all of my favorite features, the choice is pretty easy.

 

[rudukai13]

Magwells can enhance your reload, but they're not a critical piece. If it was between not carrying a gun or carrying one without all of my favorite features, the choice is pretty easy.

Absolutely agreed

 

[MojoNixon]

Ok so Krax pretty much touched on all the points I had floating around in my stroke adled brain. Mainly holster and Magwell. The sidecar feature appears to carry your mag very high. I think that prints as much of more than your pistol.
Compared to how low but still easily accessible my primary reload is carried here in a JM Custom AIWB carrier. My secondary is in a Blade-Tech signature teklok. Actually seldom carried together. My blaster is in an Armordillo Concealment XFER. Very similar to the Raven VG3. Love it.

The other 2 pics show everything on my belt when I carry both mag carriers. And what it looks like head on under a typical cover shirt for me (a Cabelas Safari shirt) again I’m 6’3” but only 180’ish pounds so rather slender. I find keeping the holster and carrier separate allows them to move with me rather than fighting me by being held rigidly in place. Belt is a Mean Gene 1.5”