Guerrilla Approach Carbine Marksmanship
- Thread starter victran
- Start date
I'm responding to your posts about SOF conducting stops
275RLTW
Regular Member
He doesn't teach traffic stops. From his website:
Areas Covered:-Close-quarter marksmanship in urban environments-Vehicle ballistic lab-Fundamental tactical concepts (individual/team)-Individual and team movement techniques-Team communication-Shooting from/around vehicles-Counter-ambush/active shooter response-Low-Light Shooting (location dependant)-Down shooter exercises (LE ONLY)–Down vehicle counter-ambush techniques (LE ONLY)–Officer recovery-vehicle (LE ONLY)
Are you saying that he's not qualified to teach the above subjects? (They are all covered in SFAUC)
Areas Covered:-Close-quarter marksmanship in urban environments-Vehicle ballistic lab-Fundamental tactical concepts (individual/team)-Individual and team movement techniques-Team communication-Shooting from/around vehicles-Counter-ambush/active shooter response-Low-Light Shooting (location dependant)-Down shooter exercises (LE ONLY)–Down vehicle counter-ambush techniques (LE ONLY)–Officer recovery-vehicle (LE ONLY)
Are you saying that he's not qualified to teach the above subjects? (They are all covered in SFAUC)
This is what Im addressing
275RLTW
Regular Member
SOF does vehicle interdictions which is stopping a vehicle in order to detain the occupants. LE does traffic stops in order to assess if a violation was comitted and if correction action is necessary, including detention of the occupants. In both instances, lethal force may be required based upon the actions of the occupants or surrounding people. Tactics are used inorder to survive the fight, press or disengage the fight as needed, and minimize risk to non combatants.
How are there not many similariaties, especially in the tactics used once lethal force is necessary?
How are there not many similariaties, especially in the tactics used once lethal force is necessary?
You need to stay in your lane and not comment on things you don't understand.
Matt Shockey
Amateur
The way Aaron comes off and presents himself is with absolute pure arrogance and the Petty thing was lame. He piggy backed off Noners fight and Noner ended that shit long ago.
I train with Noner and Mac several times a year and as a host, have gotten to know them on a personal level and consider them legitimately friends and their resumes are more impressive than Aaron's and also another guy from the Unit and all three don't have a fraction of the arrogance or temperament of Aaron.
I'm sure the guy is knowledgeable, I know he's expierenced.....I'm not sure anyone doubts that, but the way he conducts his interactions and his personality absolutely suck.
Who better to learn from on how to hook into a room than USASOC dudes, not alot....but there's also quite a few walking around, so if u can't have an educated conversation or disagree with another instructors curriculum without taking a jab every 5 seconds, I'll look elsewhere and so will many others.
I train with Noner and Mac several times a year and as a host, have gotten to know them on a personal level and consider them legitimately friends and their resumes are more impressive than Aaron's and also another guy from the Unit and all three don't have a fraction of the arrogance or temperament of Aaron.
I'm sure the guy is knowledgeable, I know he's expierenced.....I'm not sure anyone doubts that, but the way he conducts his interactions and his personality absolutely suck.
Who better to learn from on how to hook into a room than USASOC dudes, not alot....but there's also quite a few walking around, so if u can't have an educated conversation or disagree with another instructors curriculum without taking a jab every 5 seconds, I'll look elsewhere and so will many others.
@275RLTW
When someone talks about things they don't understand, people who do have first hand knowledge sniff it out pretty quickly. The term "stay in your lane" refers to someone venturing into territory they don't have knowledge of.
Talking about domestic traffic stops is outside of your lane.
When someone talks about things they don't understand, people who do have first hand knowledge sniff it out pretty quickly. The term "stay in your lane" refers to someone venturing into territory they don't have knowledge of.
Talking about domestic traffic stops is outside of your lane.
275RLTW
Regular Member
I've never claimed to having done a domestic traffic stop. Nor do I teach them. I have done vehicle interdictions and teach those. If I am wrong in my simplified description of a traffic stop then please correct it. I based it off the info I received from the LE I have taught over the last 15 years.
Your assertation about SOF experience & tactics not translating into LE work is incorrect and I'm providing my perspective from a SOF member and LE trainer. Again, a gunfight is a gunfight whether here or Kabul. What happens before then are completely different for LE & SOF (I don't think anyone is arguing that) but once rounds are flying they become very similar. Again, this is why LE use military equipment, entry tactics, TCCC, vehicles, and so on.
Your assertation about SOF experience & tactics not translating into LE work is incorrect and I'm providing my perspective from a SOF member and LE trainer. Again, a gunfight is a gunfight whether here or Kabul. What happens before then are completely different for LE & SOF (I don't think anyone is arguing that) but once rounds are flying they become very similar. Again, this is why LE use military equipment, entry tactics, TCCC, vehicles, and so on.
1st correction, don't assume military vehicle interdiction and domestic law enforcement traffic stops are similar.
Here are the similarities: there are vehicles involved, there are people involved, that's pretty much it.
Here are the similarities: there are vehicles involved, there are people involved, that's pretty much it.
Matt Shockey
Amateur
No one disputes that. It's cyclical. I wanna know about gun fighting, CQB, vehicle assualts, hostage rescue.
What I don't expect to hear is about actual traffic stops, how to handle a domestic, how to work a fatal accident, etc. Its no different if I strolled into 3rd Group CIF and told them dudes what's up with HR. Yea, I do HR as part of my SWAT duties, but not like them cats. They would laugh me the fuck out of their building.
What I don't expect to hear is about actual traffic stops, how to handle a domestic, how to work a fatal accident, etc. Its no different if I strolled into 3rd Group CIF and told them dudes what's up with HR. Yea, I do HR as part of my SWAT duties, but not like them cats. They would laugh me the fuck out of their building.
275RLTW
Regular Member
I never said traffic stops. You did. I said "stop vehicles."
Do you disagree that tactics used for in a fight should be proven? Do you disagree that it doesn't matter if the gunfight is here or there?
Edited* I replied to where you said "traffic stops" so I can see how that could be mistaken. I was explaining the capacity in which SOF do stop vehicles. However vehicles + people + bullets flying= same tactics.
Petty teaches domestic law enforcement traffic stops - how can you or Guerilla Approach address that without any background in it?
275RLTW
Regular Member
Neither of us are. GA is discussing what happens and proven tactics for when someone is ambushed within or near a vehicle.
275RLTW
Regular Member
He seems to be basing his opinion off a few videos and not personal experience. If he has experience then that would be good to mention and would add validity to his statements. Instead it seems like he just has a personal issue with Aaron and/or his expectations of the DVD. If disapproval by 1 member is cause for "lack of experience" then we need start applying that standard to other instructors here as well. I had also posted a response on that thread you linked. Considering there is no mention of it being a LE only based course/DVD and named "High Threat Vehicle Tactics," I don't see where he has gone out of his lane.
Of course you don't because you seem to be jumping at opportunities to defend him.
275RLTW
Regular Member
I'm questioning the reason for stating that he lacks experience in that area (fighting around/in vehicles) because he disagrees with another instructor about it. Yes, he is very vocal about his disagreement in techniques and that is his right to do so and his business to run. Given that other instructors with similar mil backgrounds disagree with Petty says alot and adds some weight to his statements. However this thread is not about Petty nor his tactics. My interest is the discussion about calling out fallicies in training, the responsibility of an instructor to do so, and the crossovers between mil tactics and LE tactics under fire. GA is doing that in the referenced video. That's not the way I would do it but it's not my video or company. I don't know if Aaron is that way in the course as the AAR this thread is about was for a basic carbine class. You started bashing GA for his dispute with your friend Petty.
People that don't understand the nuances of domestic law enforcement traffic stops will disagree if they have a military background only because it is a different animal.
this is where the shit talking/posting comes in