Guerrilla Approach Carbine Marksmanship

[275RLTW]

People that don't understand the nuances of domestic law enforcement traffic stops will disagree if they have a military background only because it is a different animal.

This is why I asked earlier:

Do you disagree that tactics used for in a fight should be proven? Do you disagree that it doesn't matter if the gunfight is here or there?

Also, where do you keep getting "traffic stops?" GA is not claiming to teach that.

 

[Matt Landfair]

If you don't even understand the parameters of what you are talking about, how can you make assertions?

 

[275RLTW]

If you don't even understand the parameters of what you are talking about, how can you make assertions?

Its a gunfight. Vehicles, people, and bullets. You are either fighting into, out of, towards, or away from a vehicle.

Do you have an answer for my questions?

 

[Matt Landfair]

I've never claimed to having done a domestic traffic stop. Nor do I teach them.

This is the issue. If you think this is a black and white issue, you should stop posting now. If you think military tactics apply in this, you are out of your lane.

 

[275RLTW]

This is not about traffic stops so I am well within my lane. The course GA teaches is "High Threat Vehicle Tactics." Since I am a current trainer for DoS and DoD of the same topic, and have SOF experience I am well within my knowledge and experience base.

 

[Matt Landfair]

What we have established is: you and Guerilla Approach don't have any experience with domestic law enforcement traffic stops.

Domestic law enforcement traffic stops are not established known high threats, we don't have rifles out, we don't have backup or a squad, or support.

The ambushes are typically a single vehicle with 1 or 2 officers killed while either parked or drawn into a specific area.

What started this was my comment about Barruga and his negative posts/remarks about others (mostly Petty).

With this in mind, Petty's niche is specifically domestic law enforcement traffic stops. If you and GA don't have that background, how can you critique it?

 

[Matt Landfair]

I'm done with your trolling and white knighting.

 

[275RLTW]

Fighting around vehicles is not limited to traffic stops (remember N. Hollywood Bank, Norco CA, Baton Rouge, and others?). GA is not teaching traffic stops and since this is a thread about a GA carbine course the bashing of him for his disagreement with another had nothing to do with the OP and was uncalled for. It is known that you support Petty and saying that Aarons' SOF military experience of fighting around vehicles doesn't make him qualified to teach fighting around vehicles, just because he doesn't have a badge is naive. How can someone who doesn't have SOF experince comment on what training and experience SOF personnel have?



This is not trolling just because you diagree with me. By saying that military experience in gunfights doesn't translate to LE trainingthen you are saying that all trainers with mil backgrounds, including myslef are unqualified to train LE. Yet you yourself take classes from them. The cadre at DARC are mostly mil yet teach HRW and other LE specific courses. Are you saying that they are not qualified as well? This site's mission states: Provide an avenue for professionals to discuss professional matters in a professional manner. We are working at removing institutional ignorance one question or problem at a time. Thinking that you have to have a badge to teach gunfighting is institutional ignorance as proven by the countless LE officers that train with mil trainers every day. The class you refrence with GA is not a LE specific class nor is it teaching LE only tasks. I don't know why you're hung up on traffic stops as that's not even a topic being discussed here. I don't know why you brought up Petty as he is not anywhere near the topic of this thread.

This may be your forum and your show. You stated earlier in post #15 that mil teaching tactics to LE needs resolution. You lost credability there, especially as you seek out mil trainers yourself and even have a patch from them on your helmet as a picture on the forum. Since this is your forum you can play favorites. You have shown that here and that it blocks your ability to assess information without bias.

Think what you will. I'm out.

 

[Matt Landfair]

Those are some pretty giant leaps in logic.

You might want to read through the thread from the beginning.

 

[leozinho]

Provide examples of his nonsense, please.

I would like to hear what nonsense he's spewing, rather than "he's not a cop so he doesn't have a frame of reference." That doesn't cut it.

For just a moment let's forget he's not a cop and we'll ignore his SOF background.

What is it you object to that he teaches? Can you provide an example? This shouldn't be that hard.

 

[Matt Landfair]

For just a moment let's forget he's not a cop and we'll ignore his SOF background.

What is it you object to that he teaches? Can you provide an example? This shouldn't be that hard.

Reread the thread from the beginning.

 

[Matt Landfair]

This is the only thing I have focused on.

If he has no relevant experience or knowledge of the niche he criticizes how is that not shitposting?

 

[leozinho]

Reread the thread from the beginning.

I've read the thread and don't need to read it again to know you haven't provided an example of his nonsense and have tried to shift the topic to whether Barruga has performed traffic stops or performed traffic enforcement.

Look, it's your house. I can't make you back up your statement. But isn't this forum supposed to be different? It's not like we needed another gun/tactical forum that's full of cliques and little cabals where the dissenting opinion is met with "Get back in your lane." You (well, one podcast of moderators) go on about how there's no groupthink, and everyone has to back up their statements or be called out on it, and how they want regular members to police others.

I could probably watch Barruga's video(s?) and find something to quibble about. That you don't have anything makes me think you haven't watched it, much less taken his class. Do you know anything about him other than what is on Soldier Systems Daily? Am I wrong?

 

[Matt Landfair]

I don't pay attention to GA to keep links of his posts. I don't care enough. He has already dismissed P&S, I have no reason to follow him.

There are already examples of what you seek in this thread.

Again, if he has no proper frame of reference of a niche, his criticism of it is shit posting.

 

[BklynBacon]

It's not about a LE vs Mil thing. I said what I said, and will continue to say it...because, if he's not catering this course material to police, then who is he catering it to? Joe Schmo the painter? Because I would really like to see such a thing. Joe Schmo at best is carrying a pistol, maybe a reload if he's switched on like that. I'm not gonna bother saying "stay in your lane", because folks are gonna get all butthurt by such a phrase. I'm not a hater, but if you're marketing this for people who are actually getting ambushed, and will latch on to every word you say, because you led a life of trigger pulling..it's probably best to have a good frame of reference, or at least show some humility and just teach what you teach. Frankly, ya are gonna come off like a dick, throwing shade over the internet over what someone teaches and how it differs from you.

I'm a LE trainer...I'm a dime a dozen. I can be replaced, and there's more with experience than me. And I have over 13 years of it. All of it in some of the shittiest neighborhoods in the USA. But I'm humble. There's TONS of SOF guys out there, many of them should be teaching, but they choose not to. The point is...he ain't the only one with that skill set and can be replaced. So it's probably best to just do the damn thing, and let the work show. Not talk about it, or what others are doing. Us cops are a crafty bunch. We can seek out if someone is full of shit...or if they're worth the time. We don't need help with it by reading comments on soldier systems or elsewhere.


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[BklynBacon]

I'll even go as far as to say I'm willing to talk to him or others here that are in disagreement with me or others and share ideas, so we can understand it better. If you're ever in Miami, we can talk it over Coronas and strippers. I'll buy the first lap dance. Maybe then, we will all walk away with greater understanding, I'll bring a flash drive with years of articles, AARs/debriefs, etc. so people are more informed of the plight of cops and what we actually need to know.


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[leozinho]

I don't pay attention to GA to keep links of his posts. I don't care enough. He has already dismissed P&S, I have no reason to follow him.

There are already examples of what you seek in this thread.

Again, if he has no proper frame of reference of a niche, his criticism of it is shit posting.

So, if I understand this correctly (and I maybe I don't because you aren't even trying to be clear)...you can't or won't give an example of him teaching anything that is 'nonsense' or wrong. You just resent his criticism (shit post, as you call it) because, according to you, he has no proper frame of reference.

I don't care about his takedown of Petty, or Barruga's dismissal of P&S, or even Barruga himself for that matter. But I have read a lot or even most of what he's written (I've haven't read every single word, or watched all his videos. I'm not an expert on everything he's ever said.)

In general, he seems to me to make a lot of sense. But I don't claim to know everything, and maybe I'm missing something. If anyone knows of him teaching things that are 'wrong' or unsound, here is a good place to let us know.

 

[Matt Landfair]

I have repeated the same thing 3 or 4 times because people don't seem to understand. I'm done.

 

[Joe _K]

Read this thread and instantly thought of this.

If the boot fits, lace it up and hump over to your local McDonalds for a straw to suck it the fuck up.

Velocitas, Opprimere,
Violentia Operandi

 

[till44]

This thread got interesting, but it seems most of the opinions aren't based off any real experience training with GA.

I've trained with Aaron twice now, the first was an open enrollment vehicle shooting course. We shot pistols 80% of the time and never ran rifles from the vehicle. Only time we shot rifles was around barricades, covering different shooting positions, and static line drills.

The second time he came and trained our entire SWAT team. He made the 6 hour drive for free and it didn't cost our team a dime. He explained his goal with the class and the video he was prepping for with Panteo. I haven't watched the video yet, but the goal of the class wasn't to train for the routine traffic stop, but responding to critical incidents as LE, whether as a patrol officer or tactical element (he focused our training time as if we were responding as a team). Things like active shooters, terrorist attacks, ambushes on approach to target location, etc. He's pushing this training because he sees islamic extremist attacks increasing and LE having to respond to incidents similar to the ones he experienced while in SOF.

Maybe that goal was not conveyed in the video and maybe it's been missed in his delivery, but that's what I've understood it to be. He never covered traffic stop tactics, it was all about where to be, how to move, and how to shoot around a vehicle if you're ambushed in it while engaged or en route to a critical incident.