Variable optics

[Steven Andrews]

I have primarily used red dots on my carbines for work (LE) and for training/recreation. On the work side, with respect to variable optics, I like the idea of getting better/quicker positive identification, greater engagement range, and perhaps better precision when engaging a smaller presented target.

What is your experience with variable optics on carbines? What's available now that I should look at if considering one for work or for recreation?

Any guidance appreciated.

 

[JekPokins]

My work gun is by policy is only allowed an EOTech (512, which means I also have a fixed BUIS since the optic only works everytime, 60% of the time). But I have found that I far prefer a 1-X for my own recreational/ competition/ Red Dawn fantasy needs.
I have a couple of Leupold VX-R Patrols that I've found to work as well as a T-1 for me (though not a true 1x) at speed and they've also done well enough to get very decent results as far as 700 on a 12x18 steel. All of my stuff is in ADM mounts and I very rarely move optics from rifle to rifle. I'll try and get some pics later on.

 

[FailureDrill]

Any solid 1-4x or 1-6x scopes with daylight visible dots/reticles and capped turrets? Anything coming down the pipe? Preferably under $1500?

I tried the Vortex 1-4 PST and was seriously underwhelmed by daylight visibility of the dot.

 

[JekPokins]

Any solid 1-4x or 1-6x scopes with daylight visible dots/reticles and capped turrets? Anything coming down the pipe? Preferably under $1500?

I tried the Vortex 1-4 PST and was seriously underwhelmed by daylight visibility of the dot.

I had the same issue with the Vortex, and I also didn't like the fact that the entire reticle illuminated. The Leupold VX-R is definitely day light visible, and the only illumination point is a single dot. I've also had the Mark AR whatever it is that is a step below from the VX-R Patrol, and it was a daylight visible green illumination.

 

[patriot_man]

I recently purchased a Vortex Razor HD GEN II 1-6x and have found it to be one of the best scope purchases I've made. Here are some pros and cons from my own perspective, your experiences may change depending on what role you plan on using the scope for.

Pros:
Daylight bright red dot
Durability
Impressively wide FOV
Clarity
Forgiving eye box compared to some other 1-6x scopes

Cons:
Magnification zoom ring is too tight
Magnification zoom ring is small
No .5 MIL sub-tensions between hashes (MRAD reticle)

Indifferent about:
Weight (25.2 oz)
Illumination lockout
Capped turrets

I believe this is a great scope for the value ($1399 street price). I was originally turned onto it by Mr. Litt at NightForce. You know a product has to be good if a person of a competing company recommends it (for the time being of course... until the NF 1-6x or 1-8x comes out lol )

 

[Default.mp3]

I believe this is a great scope for the value ($1399 street price). I was originally turned onto it by Mr. Litt at NightForce. You know a product has to be good if a person of a competing company recommends it (for the time being of course... until the NF 1-6x or 1-8x comes out lol )

One of the mods over at pistol-forum has hinted that NF will soon be coming out with a <20 oz. 1-8.

 

[jwramp]

Any solid 1-4x or 1-6x scopes with daylight visible dots/reticles and capped turrets? Anything coming down the pipe? Preferably under $1500?

I tried the Vortex 1-4 PST and was seriously underwhelmed by daylight visibility of the dot.

I picked up the Primary Arms 1-6x to give the "format" a try before dumping $1200+ on something. I have to say I'm very happy so far, running at 1x is great up close and being able to crank up the magnification for zeroing and long shots is pretty slick - having 6x rather than just 4x has been helpful. I know I get dumped on for having a shit optic, but it's held up really well for me and I'm happy with the glass. The whole reticle illuminates plenty bright under most circumstances. I've looked through VCOGs but just haven't been convinced. I know the "bombproof" aspect is nice, especially if you use it for work, but... $$$$.

 

[SonOfLiberty]

Steven Andrews - I'm a normal guy. Never carried a gun for a living, so take this fwiw since you mentioned recreational shooting. I've been on a quest to find a variable that had certain features:

Daylight bright reticle
mils for ranging, custom BDC
Under $1000, preferably in the $800 range.
Durable
Zero stop
True 1x. I've used 1.5x before and it was....lacking...

So, what did I end up with? A Burris. The XTR II 1-5. I shit you not. I was hesitant after seeing Burris engraved on the side but I've read plenty of reviews from long term users who haven't had any issues. People are comparing it to the Vortex 1-6. From what I read, the brightest setting is even too bright for noon in the Texas sun.

I texted Adam Wilson of 1 MOA Solutions before I bought it and he actually approved of it. Now I haven't received it yet, I will tomorrow. I'll be using it over the weekend in the Defoor 2 day carbine class. If it passes that I'll have more faith in it. I'm still skeptical but I think it'll turn out alright.

So I'm not saying to run out and buy one, I'm just saying it's an option to consider researching. If money is no object, then the Vortex 1-6 would prob be my pick.

 

[SonOfLiberty]

 

[PM07]

A little tip in case some aren't familiar. For those with issues with a small magnification adjustment handle and can't find a switch lever to fit, look at Breakaway Nylon Coasters (NC-1 Universal).I have had one on my 1X4 for a couple of years and haven't lost it yet. Plus at $20 for 2 its hard to beat.

 

[patriot_man]

Also Vortex is releasing their 1-6x Strike Eagle which is causing quite a stir. Apparently it has a lot of features from the HD GEN II Razor 1-6x and is supposed to one-up the Primary Arms 1-6x at a price point of $499 or so. Only time will tell as these are just words. I'm waiting to see what people who buy them actually think of it.

One of the mods over at pistol-forum has hinted that NF will soon be coming out with a <20 oz. 1-8.

Spoke with Mr. Litt of NF and he did say it was in the works. I was hoping for a release this SHOT but he said he wouldn't know when it would be coming out. Perhaps next SHOT.

 

[jwramp]

Also Vortex is releasing their 1-6x Strike Eagle which is causing quite a stir. Apparently it has a lot of features from the HD GEN II Razor 1-6x and is supposed to one-up the Primary Arms 1-6x at a price point of $499 or so. Only time will tell as these are just words. I'm waiting to see what people who buy them actually think of it.

Yes indeed. It looked pretty sweet at SHOT, looking forward to getting more feedback about it once it actually gets ran on some guns.

 

[SonOfLiberty]

For the record - this is the highest setting - easily brighter than an Aimpoint. I honestly don't know when you'd ever need this much illume. It overpowers a lightbulb even when pointed right at it.

 

[regdudedrtyjob]

I am using a Vortex PST 1-4 right now. Good, not great, exposed turrets are not as cool as I thought they'd be, and the reticle illumination layout as others have noted is more like an Eotech, with the dot inside the ring. I wish it was just a T1-like super bright center dot. But for $413.00, I'm not upset I bought it, just wish I would have waited and bought a NF 1-4.

 

[Chad H/BC520]

For the record - this is the highest setting - easily brighter than an Aimpoint. I honestly don't know when you'd ever need this much illume. It overpowers a lightbulb even when pointed right at it.

I bet I could go outside right now on a sunny day and a nice, white, snowy background and show just how that level of illumination is needed.

 

[ptrlcop]

Just curious for guys that have a lot of time on low power variables. Is daylight bright illumination really needed? I mean, if it is bright enough to wash out the illum I would think the reticle will be plenty visible.


Don't wish it was easier, wish you were better

 

[regdudedrtyjob]

I was shooting large steel plates at 300 and 400 with my PST's illum. turned off and I was getting my hits. Arizona in Dec. is plenty bright. If you are using the sight in a MIL/LE setting, I'd be fine with one that the upper settings are "too bright", like Chad H/BC520 said, there are situations you could find yourself in that you may need it. Stack the odds in your favor.

 

[FailureDrill]

Just curious for guys that have a lot of time on low power variables. Is daylight bright illumination really needed? I mean, if it is bright enough to wash out the illum I would think the reticle will be plenty visible.

It's not shooting at distance that is the issue. It's the ability to run it in a closer CQB setting with it as similar to a RDS as possible. The red dot/reticle is easier to pick up on closer, more rapid strings.

 

[Zach]

I found that the Burris CQ Reticle was easily visible in daylight with or without illumination. If the target is dark enough, you'll notice the illumination in daylight. It's not Aimpoint or Acog chevron bright, but it's enough to get the job done. Burris has a great .mil discount if you email their CS dept. They'll send you a form and get you taken care of.

I found that the reticle was precise enough to get good shots CM at targets ISPC targets out to 400 meters. I haven't gone beyond 400 yet, but the BDC proved accurate enough out of a 14.5 BCM shooting M193 up until that point to get good hits. I was smacking a 10" steel gong at 300 with boring reliability.

At closer ranges on 1x, the big donut functioned much like an eotech. Really handy.

The one downside is that the reticle can't get dim enough to function well in real low light. Combined with flashlight, however, and it's OK.

That being said, the reticle is still visible without illumination through an issued PVS-14 I dinked around with for a bit.

Pardon the potato quality picture.

 

[Matt Landfair]

After the Scoped Carbine course I just took- I have a different opinion now about magnified optics for patrol rifles.

I ran a Nightforce 2.5-10 as my primary optic and a Trijicon RMR06 as the secondary optic at 1 o'clock. Far more expensive, but I could do everything within the realm of LE application using 5.56 with that combination. Very fast, very effective - it makes me seriously reconsider my current patrol setup.