Shotguns, why?

#81
Understood.
I am picturing the scenario where you are getting engaged from the sentry car after you punched the tickets on his homies or from down the block. Or your neighbor's daughter is getting light up, so you pull overwatch and tag the threats from the comfort of your porch. Still totally justified.
 
#83
I love shotguns....Its pretty much the hammer of God from 50 yards and in. However my 870 sits in rack 10 out of 10 long gun deployments. I would like to deploy the shotgun in vehicle situations but due to where my long guns are located in my cruisers trunk, getting to them isn't always an option.
 

Sunshine_Shooter

Regular Member
WARLORD
#84
Instinctively, the gun banners realize this as well. The bans tend to target the most effective tools, and ignore the less efficient ones.
"Do not attribute to malice that which is adequately explained through ignorance." Gun bans are not based of efficacy of the weapon, but how many people can be motivated to go out and vote, and fear motivates people.
 
#85
I know this in an old thread, but I’m wondering about the validity of the shotgun in my job. I’m a full time patrol/ K9 LEO and part time SRT operator. My set allows 5.56 carbines and 12 gauge shotguns. Our 5.56 rounds are 62g federal soft tip rounds and I have reason to not be confident in that round. The only rounds we are authorized to carry for the gauge are slugs and supersocs. I have been carrying my 870 unloaded with the supersocs in a side saddle. Our policy dictates that if we deploy LL, we have to have another Ofc verify there are no lethal rounds in or on the shotgun, watch us load each LL round and we cannot have any Lethal rounds on us. I’m considering getting a 1301 for slugs. I know there are situations where I would rather deploy my m4, such as clearing a house or SRT deployments. But I feel like the shotgun would be a good choice for vehicle engagements and man with gun calls.

So what do the experts think? Is the shotgun a waste of time if I can only use slugs?
 

jnc36rcpd

Regular Member
#86
One sort-of-advantage of still being on the job is that you're stuck with what you're issued or authorized. In your case, you're not confident with the issue rifle ammunition and buckshot is not authorized. Since you're concerned about vehicle engagements, I'd load up with slugs and be done with it.
Policy precludes you rolling out of the car and beanbagging someone so you could load up the 870 with slugs and leave the Supersocs in the trunk until you have time to go through the loading protocol. On the other hand, if you like the 1301, it is probably safer to have separate platforms for lethal and less-lethal rounds.
I suspect the majority of our officers with shotguns load primarily with slugs if they don't also have rifles.
 

MrMurphy

Regular Member
#87
I'd still go AR. Even with less than optimum ammo, a 2 second reload for 30 more is good. FMJ whacked a lot of bad guys for decades, even without the newest super bullet, it will work.
 

ccw1911

Newbie
WARLORD
#88
You may not want to share but I'm curious about your issues with the ammunition your department supplies. I could come up with anecdotal evidence condemning about any ammo or proving it to be a death ray for that matter. I know when it's personal experience it's difficult to look at it scientifically but maybe discussing it here with the vast amount of experience some of your concern could be alleviated. IMO an AR15 is the answer if I was forced to shotgun it would be slugs and some kind of real sights preferably a red dot.
 
#89
You may not want to share but I'm curious about your issues with the ammunition your department supplies. I could come up with anecdotal evidence condemning about any ammo or proving it to be a death ray for that matter. I know when it's personal experience it's difficult to look at it scientifically but maybe discussing it here with the vast amount of experience some of your concern could be alleviated. IMO an AR15 is the answer if I was forced to shotgun it would be slugs and some kind of real sights preferably a red dot.
It’s a little early to post the details on an open forum, but I see what you’re saying. It’s easy to blame the ammo when you’re not getting the desired effect. We are evaluating that round and may consider something else. Maybe I’ll just keep doing what I’m doing with the 870 as a dedicated LL gun.
 
#90
I think the shotgun still has a role in Home defense, especially as a stand off gun while guarding a door. Buck can be devastating and a solid hit in center mass can end a situation quickly.

Outside the house, I’d rather have a carbine.

My HD shotgun is a mossberg 500 youth 20 Gauge with an 18 inch barrel, light, buttstock shell holder, and an additional 5 shells on the receiver. I use 1 buck. 20 gauge does every thing 12 can do inside a house with lighter recoil and overall wieght.

 
#91
Are they still an effective option versus modern carbines? WHY?

Coming from a civilian (my job is .mil but this is for civilian stuff) perspective

I would humbly submit these are two different questions.

Are shotguns effective. Yes. Home/ civilian defense situations where a short barreled pump shotgun isn't adequate are very rare. At best they are anecdotal. Capacity is an issue but in house shotgun fights don't generally last long.

Are shotguns superior to modern carbines. No. An AR-15 (or whatever) has a lot more bullets, is semi automatic, is much faster to reload and is accurate out to hundreds of meters. An AR-15 is a much better weapon for anti personnel use.

Shotguns have 3 unique advantages.
1- They are cheap. A $300 or under shotgun with a $40 streamlight and a $5 neoprene buttstock shotshell holder will do the job just fine in the vast majority of situations. A $2,000 AR-15 has some advantages for sure but at a significant cost. Some folks can't afford a $2,000 AR so they are far better off with a $350 equipped Moss/Rem pump gun than nothing.

2- Dangerous Game. If bears are on the concern list a shotgun is a good answer.

3- Legal basically everywhere. Modern carbines optimal for self defense aren't legal everywhere in the US. Pump shotguns are basically legal anywhere you can have a gun.

Unless a person falls into one of those 3 situations I would say they are better off with a modern carbine.