Introducing: Project Nemesis - P320 Roland Special

MojoNixon

Established
Very true. Along that line, one of the more inquisitive fellow shooters this evening was an older gentleman shooting a couple 1911s. He got the courage up to wander over at some point and ask what was attached to the end of the barrel (referring to the comp). After talking him through it, and letting him dump ten rounds of 124gr NATO downrange through it, he walked back to his lane - Smiling and chuckling something along the lines of "I want one of those..."
Learning occurred. As uncle Pat would say. Sounds like a good night. I’ve got an after work 300 or so round session coming up this week with my #2 son. Will be testing the Federal 147+P HST along with some more Federal American Eagle AE9FP, 147 gr Gold Dot and 124 gr +P Winchester PDX-1 all in direct comparison with 124 gr NATO spec. Should be a good and revealing session.
 

rudukai13

Pro Internet User
Learning occurred. As uncle Pat would say. Sounds like a good night. I’ve got an after work 300 or so round session coming up this week with my #2 son. Will be testing the Federal 147+P HST along with some more Federal American Eagle AE9FP, 147 gr Gold Dot and 124 gr +P Winchester PDX-1 all in direct comparison with 124 gr NATO spec. Should be a good and revealing session.

Let me know what you think in particular of the 124gr +P loads in relation to the NATO rounds. During my testing when I loaded a magazine with randomly alternating rounds of the NATO and Critical Duty 124gr +P, I could not tell a difference at all
 

MojoNixon

Established
Will do. My main concerns are how similar do the NATO spec and +P HST rounds feel. Also to prove out functionality/reliability of the HST round. I will do a comparison between the NATO spec and PDX-1.
Sometime in the future I’d like to test the Underwood 147 gr +P+ Gold Dot load. Just for shits and giggles. It’s listed at 1175 FPS from a 4” barrel. Expansion is reported to be on the order of .800” but at the cost of a slightly reduced penetration at about 12/13”.
 

SCSU74

Regular Member
First off, great post! I just wanted to post a few random thoughts as I carry the same setup minus the comp on a daily basis. My work gun is an X-Carry slide with delta point, X-Carry module with magwell and grip weight and x300u. My carry gun is compact slide with RMR, X module without magwell and x300u.

I found when carrying I had to ditch the magwell, even with the claw it did not rotate the grip enough to conceal to my liking. So I roll with a 17rd mag in the pistol and a 21 rd mag for spare. For the spare I've been really happy with the snake eater pouch sold by PHLster. It allows the mag to ride deeply (is that a real word?)

Not sure if you posted about modifying an RX slide for delta point, but it is very easy. Mark at L&M has done two slides for me, an X-Carry and my X5. Turn around was about a day and I think he charged $30 for each. Only about 2mm has to be removed from the front lip of the optic cut. The mounting pattern in the same as Romeo otherwise. Also, the DP allows you to attach a rear iron, which is nice..
 

rudukai13

Pro Internet User
http://www.osagecountyguns.com/blog/news/sig-sauer/sig-p320-m17-shipping-soon/

For anyone curious, here's info on the soon-to-ship civilian models of the M17. Looks like they'll be as follows;

- M17 Commemorative edition, limited to 5,000 units. This is the version they will basically be taking off of the MIL assembly line, will have the proper markings and FDE-colored controls. $1,122

- M17 Commercial variant, no thumb safety. Basically a standard P320 in FDE with optic cut on the fullsize slide and Carry grip module. $768

- M17 Commercial variant, with thumb safety. Closer to the true MIL version, thumb safety but with black controls and no .gov markings. $768

- M17 Bravo Commercial variant, Talo distributor-exclusive. Basically the same as the M17 Commercial w/ thumb safety, but in all black. Pricing not listed

Interestingly I still haven't heard or seen anything about a civilian version of the M18, but I imagine there would be at least some similar market for it from the cloner crowd
 

rudukai13

Pro Internet User
First off, great post! I just wanted to post a few random thoughts as I carry the same setup minus the comp on a daily basis. My work gun is an X-Carry slide with delta point, X-Carry module with magwell and grip weight and x300u. My carry gun is compact slide with RMR, X module without magwell and x300u.

I found when carrying I had to ditch the magwell, even with the claw it did not rotate the grip enough to conceal to my liking. So I roll with a 17rd mag in the pistol and a 21 rd mag for spare. For the spare I've been really happy with the snake eater pouch sold by PHLster. It allows the mag to ride deeply (is that a real word?)

Not sure if you posted about modifying an RX slide for delta point, but it is very easy. Mark at L&M has done two slides for me, an X-Carry and my X5. Turn around was about a day and I think he charged $30 for each. Only about 2mm has to be removed from the front lip of the optic cut. The mounting pattern in the same as Romeo otherwise. Also, the DP allows you to attach a rear iron, which is nice..

I too have found the X-Carry grip with the X-Series magwell to be a bit too large for concealed carry. Leaving that setup for the fullsize/"TactiComp" configuration.

How do you like the feel of the X-Carry with the addition of the grip weight? I'd been considering adding one to mine, but with everything else I've added to the pistol and 27 rounds on board it's already a pretty hefty package.

I have heard adapting the Romeo1 slide cutout to accept a DPP is fairly simple and straight-forward. For now I'm quite pleased with the performance of the R1 optics on both of the slides I have, though if I have any problems whatsoever with either of them in the future I will certainly be looking into making the switch over to Leupold
 

Nate Osborne

NateMac
Staff member
Moderator
I too have found the X-Carry grip with the X-Series magwell to be a bit too large for concealed carry. Leaving that setup for the fullsize/"TactiComp" configuration.

How do you like the feel of the X-Carry with the addition of the grip weight? I'd been considering adding one to mine, but with everything else I've added to the pistol and 27 rounds on board it's already a pretty hefty package.

I have heard adapting the Romeo1 slide cutout to accept a DPP is fairly simple and straight-forward. For now I'm quite pleased with the performance of the R1 optics on both of the slides I have, though if I have any problems whatsoever with either of them in the future I will certainly be looking into making the switch over to Leupold

I don't know the specifics of adapting to the DPP, but I know a local carry optics shooter that attended the Tim Herron class in Salt Lake this month shoots the 320 X Five with a DPP that he adapted to the Romeo optic plate. I asked him about it and he made it sound like it wasn't a bit deal at all. He shoots quite a bit, and hasn't had any issues with it. I do know that he modified the DPP body, not the adapter plate, so he could go back to the romeo if it didn't work.
 

rudukai13

Pro Internet User
There are a couple different ways to adapt different optics to the X-Series slides. One is to get the slide re-milled, which is easiest to do for the DPP as the bolt pattern for the DPP is the exact same as the Romeo1, you just need s tiny bit more clearance around the front side of the optic.

Springer Precision also now makes adapter plates for most of the common pistol dots;

https://shop.springerprecision.com/category.sc?categoryId=89

The adapters will cause the chosen optic to sit up higher than any directly mounted to the slide, of course, but at least it's an option out there
 

SCSU74

Regular Member
I too have found the X-Carry grip with the X-Series magwell to be a bit too large for concealed carry. Leaving that setup for the fullsize/"TactiComp" configuration.

How do you like the feel of the X-Carry with the addition of the grip weight? I'd been considering adding one to mine, but with everything else I've added to the pistol and 27 rounds on board it's already a pretty hefty package.

I have heard adapting the Romeo1 slide cutout to accept a DPP is fairly simple and straight-forward. For now I'm quite pleased with the performance of the R1 optics on both of the slides I have, though if I have any problems whatsoever with either of them in the future I will certainly be looking into making the switch over to Leupold

I don't notice much of difference in felt carry weight, but I notice with the X5 slide the gun shoots much flatter. I'm not sure if it's due to the larger slide, heavier barrel, additional slide cuts or what.. I'm using the X-carry slide so I don't have to modify the 6360rds duty holster since it's for T/E purposes. If it was my holster I'd use the X5 with DP and take the heat gun to the holster.
 

rudukai13

Pro Internet User
I don't notice much of difference in felt carry weight, but I notice with the X5 slide the gun shoots much flatter. I'm not sure if it's due to the larger slide, heavier barrel, additional slide cuts or what.. I'm using the X-carry slide so I don't have to modify the 6360rds duty holster since it's for T/E purposes. If it was my holster I'd use the X5 with DP and take the heat gun to the holster.

I'm sure all the different factors of the X-Five slide have at least some effect on the recoil profile of the gun.

I had been looking at Safariland holster options, but it just didn't seem like there were any that would fit with everything I've done to this gun without significant modification. I'm hoping to see a Safariland option that would effectively fit a X-Five with X300U and slide-mounted optic, because that should in theory fit the X-Carry with compensator as I've got mine configured
 

MojoNixon

Established
So I had a 290 round session today.
Conditions:
99 degrees.
10% humidity
4600’ elevation
30.00 in/hg barometric pressure.
15 mph at my back wind
150 rounds 147 gr +P HST
63 rounds 124 gr NATO Spec
34 rounds 124 gr +P Winchester PDX-1
43 rounds 147 gr Speer Gold Dot.
Target was a 1/3 scale steel silhouette.
280 hits at 12 to 20 yards.
Cadence roughly 1.5 rounds/second.
Malfunctions: zero.
The +P HST was exactly what I was expecting it to be. In my hands a near duplicate in feel to the 124 NATO Spec.
I have my carry round and my training round now decided.
The PDX-1 is a pretty hot round. Hotter than the NATO Spec round. A little snappier than either of the other 2. Still totally controllable with the comp.
The 147 gr Gold Dot felt virtually identical to standard pressure 147 HST. No real surprise there as ballistically they are nearly identical. You can definitely feel the comp working with both just not quite as efficiently as with the +P loads of both weights.
I am very pleased with today’s testing and the shacking out my training and carry rounds.

Rudukai I have to thank you brother, as I probably would not have done this type of side by side testing if I hadn’t started following your ammo journey.
 

rudukai13

Pro Internet User
Nicely done sir! Happy to help inspire others. This has been the standard ammo testing I've done with every new platform for years and it's served me very well so far. The compensator added a new unique twist, but still a fairly straight forward process
 

rudukai13

Pro Internet User
Well...Staying true to my nature of not being able to leave damn well enough alone;

IMG_2375.JPG

I went and found a "minimalist" magwell for the Compact grip module. This is the ANR Designs ANVL magwell and base pad for the P320. They say it will fit the standard Fullsize, Carry, and Compact grip modules with the Medium grip circumference. Attached by press-fit and retains with a screw through the lanyard hole in the backstrap of the grip module. Unlike other magwells on the market, this one requires no permanent modification to your grip module and is easily removable by removing the set screw.

IMG_2369.JPG

You can see here the magwell only adds about 1/8-1/4" of length to the bottom of the rear of the grip module, which should allow it to remain fairly concealable. A comparison of the height of the two grip modules;

IMG_2359.JPG

And where they both sit in my hand;

IMG_2361.JPG

IMG_2367.JPG

I've only just received and installed this new part so I will have to do further testing but so far I like how it helps my grip stay in place on the Compact grip module and gives my pinky finger something more substantial to leverage against. I will of course be testing this new addition thoroughly both at the range and for how well it conceals over the next couple of weeks and will report back with any issues or observations.

Of note, the basepad to be used with the magwell does not extend the capacity of the magazine (in this case, 15 rounds); it just replaces the factory plastic basepad which does not work with the ANVL magwell
 

rudukai13

Pro Internet User
Maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me but in your 2nd pic the Magwell looks a little crooked.
How’s the TLR-7? Yours is the first I’ve seen in the wild.

Your eyes are not incorrect, I noticed that after taking the picture too and corrected it.

I like the TLR. For all intents and purposes it's effectively just as bright as the X300U (500 lumens for the TLR vs. 600 lumens for the X300, to be specific), but in a much more compact package. They both run off the same CR123A batteries too, so buying spares for one means having spares for both. The controls are a bit out of the way and I do have to break my support hand grip a bit to activate it, but as a compromise for a compact concealed carry light from a brand with a solid reputation like Streamlight, I like it overall
 

Sunshine_Shooter

Established
Your eyes are not incorrect, I noticed that after taking the picture too and corrected it.

And here I was, thinking that it was designed that way to help facilitate right-handed reloads (coming from the left side of the magwell).

I'm trying to decide if I'll upgrade my gun with the TLR-1 800 lumen, or the TLR-7. What do you guys think?
 

rudukai13

Pro Internet User
I think it mostly depends on your dimensional requirements and your switch/button preferences. I've never worked with the TLR-1 lights so I shouldn't/won't comment on them at length
 

Sunshine_Shooter

Established
I think it mostly depends on your dimensional requirements and your switch/button preferences. I've never worked with the TLR-1 lights so I shouldn't/won't comment on them at length
What is the switch activation on the -7? Is it a press for on/off, and a hold for momentary?
 
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