Weapon lights handgun duty or edc
- Thread starter Matt Landfair
- Start date
Munch520
Newbie
On a side note (and speaking of technique) had a buddy who's right handed, and insists on running his 600 lumen scout on the port side of his carbine. Likes the easy access to the clicky tailcap and blablabla. I get it but he doesn't have the mileage on the gun to work around it. Well he was over the other night and I flipped the lights off and had him engage, from cover, an imaginary threat down the hallway. So he pops out and hits the light (which hadn't cleared his cover) and blam 
...he just stood there blindly blinking for a few.
He had an SR07 switch on order before he left my house haha. Any amount of lumens leave you blinded if you make those types of mistakes
...he just stood there blindly blinking for a few.He had an SR07 switch on order before he left my house haha. Any amount of lumens leave you blinded if you make those types of mistakes
@tactical.ken
Newbie
I carry a Glock 43 as my EDC so no light for me
275RLTW
Regular Member
So why post then if not contributing to the topic?I carry a Glock 43 as my EDC so no light for me
X300 always. Threats in dark areas don't appear only when you are "on duty."
jryock
Amateur
I just use a handheld light (e.g. ProTac, Fury, etc.) for EDC CCW, but I'm planning to change that config into an XC1 and the handheld once RCS comes out with a Vanguard for the XC1.
The only time the U-boat gets any playing time is for overt carry and nightstand duty. It just doesn't conceal comfortably for me.
The only time the U-boat gets any playing time is for overt carry and nightstand duty. It just doesn't conceal comfortably for me.
At an outdoor low-light class a week ago:
^ That was the XC-1. The muzzle flash is because it's Blazer Brass from a < 4-inch barrel (I was shooting the range/training copy of my carry gun), so ignore that and just look downrange.
That's a Challenge TDI torso, so you can get an approximation of the distance and the performance of the light. It's outdoors, and the ground is that dark pea-gravel that just sucks up light.
You can see how diffuse the light is. It's really all spill/corona, virtually no identifiable hot-spot. With enough space, the corona washes out radially in a very gradual manner.
For me, as an average law-abiding civvie, given my mission (self-defense) and my typical surroundings (urban/suburban), this light is more than enough. That MaxVision reflector really does the trick. If your mission and environment are different, the way the light throws can become a limitation pretty fast.
I wish there was a picture of a fellow classmate's ([JoshuaJJackson) X300U. My description will hopefully give you an idea, but still....
With the differences in the reflector assembly (not to mention the sheer size), the X300U produces a distinct hot-spot much like my handheld (EB2), below:
^ Ignore the artifact in front of the target, that's gunsmoke. Also ignore my poor technique - I'm still working on maintaining alignment of the beam with the target.
But from this picture, you'll notice that intense hotspot from the light, and that's pretty much what the X300U's output is like: it's got a big hot-spot (where the throw comes in), along with a huge usable corona. If you need to use the handgun WML where you absolutely need throw, then there's absolutely no contest, the X300U just wins.
You look at the specs of the X300U at 600 lumens and 13K candela versus the 200 lumens/750 candela output of the XC-1.... that says it all right there.
Well, this is my first post!
Go easy, everyone, if I've made a mistake - correct me, and I'll implement!
Fatboy
Established
Glock 22 with a TLR-1HL on duty; off duty is a Glock 23 with RMR and a TLR-1 or a Glock 43 with a TLR-6. Rarely I will carry a Glock 23 without a light or optic.
All lights are Streamlight, because I'm within spitting distance of their factory if I have issues. Not to mention I can get on average 2 Streamlight gun lights for the pride of 1 Surefire product.
All lights are Streamlight, because I'm within spitting distance of their factory if I have issues. Not to mention I can get on average 2 Streamlight gun lights for the pride of 1 Surefire product.
datacshooter
Newbie
Here's my theory on my X300U-b.
Ive been playing around with it one night, not live fire but just flashing it on and off at different distances.
The X300U definitely has a distinct hot spot, almost like my Eb2. At first I really didn't care for this intense
beam but have come to love it. I also had a crazy idea! I could actually use the light as a very wide laser sight
at close distances. It won't work at far distances because the hot spot will spread too wide, but say at 15yds and in
it may work.
I know....kinda crazy but I believe if fired not using the irons sights most of the rounds will impact in the general
area the hot spot is throwing its beam. Not very accurate but in a emergency situation it will work. Just point the beam of
the light and press the trigger.
What do you guys think? Will it work? I haven't tried it but it was a thought.
Thanks
Ive been playing around with it one night, not live fire but just flashing it on and off at different distances.
The X300U definitely has a distinct hot spot, almost like my Eb2. At first I really didn't care for this intense
beam but have come to love it. I also had a crazy idea! I could actually use the light as a very wide laser sight
at close distances. It won't work at far distances because the hot spot will spread too wide, but say at 15yds and in
it may work.
I know....kinda crazy but I believe if fired not using the irons sights most of the rounds will impact in the general
area the hot spot is throwing its beam. Not very accurate but in a emergency situation it will work. Just point the beam of
the light and press the trigger.
What do you guys think? Will it work? I haven't tried it but it was a thought.
Thanks
WayneF
Member
Here is a quick comparison of the XC1 vs other known lights. The first example is the X300U that was mounted on one of my rifles:
This is the XC1 in the same room:
Last week we performed some SWAT training in a commercial building. The basement was approximately 40 yards long and filled with equipment. I compared the Surefire E1B that I keep in my pocket daily with the XC1. It is interesting to see the difference in spill and total output between two different 200 lumen lights.
E1B:
XC1:
This is the XC1 in the same room:
Last week we performed some SWAT training in a commercial building. The basement was approximately 40 yards long and filled with equipment. I compared the Surefire E1B that I keep in my pocket daily with the XC1. It is interesting to see the difference in spill and total output between two different 200 lumen lights.
E1B:
XC1:
^ Awesome post, and that's what I like to stress to those who are new shoppers (or "tactical shoppers") who are less familiar with what "the numbers" mean.
It's way too easy to just think that lumens output is all that matters, when in-truth, yes, it's important, but it's by-far not the end-all/be-all.
Your 200-lumens comparison between the Surefire EB1 (which I'm assuming is what you meant to write, as it's the update to the older E1B, which was spec'ed at 110 lumens output) and the XC1 really highlights (no pun intended) this critical difference.
- The EB1 is 200 lumens, 10,000 candela.
- The XC1, as I noted above, is spec'ed at the same 200 lumens, but at only 750 candela.
These are the "numbers" translations of what you most excellently illustrated real-world with your beamshots, and is what's touched on for a little in the meat of this Recoil article - http://www.recoilweb.com/preview-lumens-candelas-6105.html - a well as via the following Elzetta blog entries:
http://www.elzetta.com/blog/lumens/
http://www.elzetta.com/blog/candela/
That EB1's considerably higher candela rating at the same lumens output translates into more throw, and how that manifests is that intense hot-spot in your warehouse shot. At first glance, discounting photographic artifacts, it would seem that the XC1 shown in your lower panel - with its wide, even, and diffuse lighting - would be an absolute winner. However, had your target been that darkish shape in the far right corner and you needed to see what was in his hands, the balance of power may have shifted to the EB1 instead. [ Casting umbrella light in each scenario would also have been interesting. ]
We look at your first picture in the hotel room, with that X300U (at 600 lumens, 13,000 candela) nearly incinerating the floor lamp in the far corner - and I think this is where a lot of folks still get trapped by the oldthink of "lights above xxx lumens will blind you indoors" via backscatter/glare. The truth, however, as another member posted above, is that this is simply a matter of training: both in terms of understanding how to use the light (I really liked this article from BreachBangClear: http://www.breachbangclear.com/stop-blinding-yourself/) as well as in simply knowing what to expect when you turn on that light.
For example, in that low-light class that I cited above, it was my first time using my Surefire EB2 - transitioning from my previous EDC of over 3 years, a Surefire E2D with a Malkoff M60/VME update - and among the problems I had that night was a very real acclimation period to the increased backscatter/glare the EB2 gave off of both my shooting hand and the pistol it was gripping. The instructor of that class knew my BSA template, and was wondering why I seemed to be having trouble shooting. My response was that I was finding the foreground glare of the light quite distracting. By the end of the night, though, it was no longer a problem.
What I think is important for those who are looking for lights today to understand is that they need to realize that there's no replacement for power. If your light doesn't have that throw, it just doesn't have that throw: it just can't reach out there. On the other hand, even if you're just looking at a 6' x 6' box of a downtown apartment, there's always the ability to bounce the light or use baseboard/umbrella techniques to avoid blinding oneself.
The XC1 has this very real limitation. Even though it is an excellent light that fills all of my needs as a concealed-carry citizen and is indeed what's slaved to my EDC, I don't think that it's necessarily going to be that automatic right choice for everyone, particularly for those who carry a handgun for duty purposes.
Great set of pictures, WayneF.
It's way too easy to just think that lumens output is all that matters, when in-truth, yes, it's important, but it's by-far not the end-all/be-all.
Your 200-lumens comparison between the Surefire EB1 (which I'm assuming is what you meant to write, as it's the update to the older E1B, which was spec'ed at 110 lumens output) and the XC1 really highlights (no pun intended
) this critical difference.- The EB1 is 200 lumens, 10,000 candela.
- The XC1, as I noted above, is spec'ed at the same 200 lumens, but at only 750 candela.
These are the "numbers" translations of what you most excellently illustrated real-world with your beamshots, and is what's touched on for a little in the meat of this Recoil article - http://www.recoilweb.com/preview-lumens-candelas-6105.html - a well as via the following Elzetta blog entries:
http://www.elzetta.com/blog/lumens/
http://www.elzetta.com/blog/candela/
That EB1's considerably higher candela rating at the same lumens output translates into more throw, and how that manifests is that intense hot-spot in your warehouse shot. At first glance, discounting photographic artifacts, it would seem that the XC1 shown in your lower panel - with its wide, even, and diffuse lighting - would be an absolute winner. However, had your target been that darkish shape in the far right corner and you needed to see what was in his hands, the balance of power may have shifted to the EB1 instead. [ Casting umbrella light in each scenario would also have been interesting. ]
We look at your first picture in the hotel room, with that X300U (at 600 lumens, 13,000 candela) nearly incinerating the floor lamp in the far corner - and I think this is where a lot of folks still get trapped by the oldthink of "lights above xxx lumens will blind you indoors" via backscatter/glare. The truth, however, as another member posted above, is that this is simply a matter of training: both in terms of understanding how to use the light (I really liked this article from BreachBangClear: http://www.breachbangclear.com/stop-blinding-yourself/) as well as in simply knowing what to expect when you turn on that light.
For example, in that low-light class that I cited above, it was my first time using my Surefire EB2 - transitioning from my previous EDC of over 3 years, a Surefire E2D with a Malkoff M60/VME update - and among the problems I had that night was a very real acclimation period to the increased backscatter/glare the EB2 gave off of both my shooting hand and the pistol it was gripping. The instructor of that class knew my BSA template, and was wondering why I seemed to be having trouble shooting. My response was that I was finding the foreground glare of the light quite distracting. By the end of the night, though, it was no longer a problem.
What I think is important for those who are looking for lights today to understand is that they need to realize that there's no replacement for power. If your light doesn't have that throw, it just doesn't have that throw: it just can't reach out there. On the other hand, even if you're just looking at a 6' x 6' box of a downtown apartment, there's always the ability to bounce the light or use baseboard/umbrella techniques to avoid blinding oneself.
The XC1 has this very real limitation. Even though it is an excellent light that fills all of my needs as a concealed-carry citizen and is indeed what's slaved to my EDC, I don't think that it's necessarily going to be that automatic right choice for everyone, particularly for those who carry a handgun for duty purposes.
Great set of pictures, WayneF.