Personally, I don't. I could see it being useful for a static position behind actual cover if you have the ability for that low percentage shot...
Switching shoulders with a carbine
- Thread starter Matt Landfair
- Start date
I used to think that skill was pretty much useless. After Iraq, I changed my mind pretty quick, and is something I try to practice regularly. I think that even though it is a skill that most people won't ever really need, it never hurts to have one more tool in you bag.
I also try to practice shooting in unconventional positions as much as I can, i.e. shooting while laying on your sides, on your back, etc. Shooting prone all the time just isn't realistic. In a real situation, you have to use everything around you to your advantage. That means if you're pinned down behind a vehicle, you better know how to brace your feet on the side of the car and let the axle and tire protect you while you're shooting underneath
I also try to practice shooting in unconventional positions as much as I can, i.e. shooting while laying on your sides, on your back, etc. Shooting prone all the time just isn't realistic. In a real situation, you have to use everything around you to your advantage. That means if you're pinned down behind a vehicle, you better know how to brace your feet on the side of the car and let the axle and tire protect you while you're shooting underneath
I heard some fun stories about shooting under a car and ricochets.
Interesting topic. I recently realized how deep the switching shoulders doctrine ran in me when I was reviewing my helmet cam video from a recent training mission, and I noticed that I switched left to fire around a corner and I don't ever remember switching. Conditioned response indeed...
tylerw02
Regular Member
I've taken training courses where the instructor preached it, and some where the instructors said the hit percentage was so low it wasn't worth messing with training. Personally, I train for it but not all that often; I feel like I should more.
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All of the above. The only time I see it useful is as I described above.
As far has hit percentage goes, I know for myself that the RDS has certainly made it much easier for wrong handed shooting. Magnified optics on the other hand, with the wrong eye are a fucking bitch. YMMV and what not.
Chris Taylor
Random Factor of the K Power
Tyler, are you cross-dominant, or just starting to succumb to age? Legit question, unusually for me, not being a smartass.
tylerw02
Regular Member
Not cross dominant, but combination of having scratched my right eye (always wear eye pro in the woods, especially in the dark!) and astigmatism in my right. Scopes with an etched reticle, especially with a focus, makes the problem go away, but I still prefer a red dot for anything up close.
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Well obviously has some applications, Mike Pannone seems to incorporate it in to his rifle curriculum. His class, as well as Bennie Coolie's provided enough practice were making braced, weak side shots around cover at 150-200m on reduced sized silhouette's wasn't terribly difficult. The reality is not every corner or cover is going to be optimal. Esp in an urban environment. Being able to deliver accurate fire to a reasonable distance and manipulate your rifle around the other half of corners or cover and keep your profile to a minimum isn't a bad thing.
With anything, it takes practice and time (and live fire practice) to do well. This is an area were red dots shine, as getting behind the dot and getting being comfortable is half the battle when it comes to practice. Once thats accomplished, things start to gel and it gets easier. As with anything, reps are key.
Realistically, a sub-optimal corner is going to present itself far more often then situations that require shooting under a vehicle or laying on ones back. Not saying those positions do not merit practice, but that I find a weird aversion with some to shooting weak/support side vs doing the sexy "urban" prone stuff.
With anything, it takes practice and time (and live fire practice) to do well. This is an area were red dots shine, as getting behind the dot and getting being comfortable is half the battle when it comes to practice. Once thats accomplished, things start to gel and it gets easier. As with anything, reps are key.
Realistically, a sub-optimal corner is going to present itself far more often then situations that require shooting under a vehicle or laying on ones back. Not saying those positions do not merit practice, but that I find a weird aversion with some to shooting weak/support side vs doing the sexy "urban" prone stuff.
If I happen to get hosed with the wrong side of cover, I switch. We train it often and it has shown up as part of our qual courses, standards and diagnostics.
regdudedrtyjob
Regular Member
I see it in the same vein as one handed pistol shooting. You will probably never need to do it, but if you do, hopefully that isn't the first time in a long time you are doing it.
shooters101
OPFOR
When running OPFOR I find myself doing this a lot. I am trying to stay behind as much cover as possible but at the same time lay as much hate as I can. I have been to training classes that push it and others that advocate against it. I have so much practice from doing OPFOR that I don't even notice I'm doing it sometimes, but I find only do it in very close quarters and not out in open areas. I have tried it live fire and pretty much have the same response.
FailureDrill
Member
As an instructor, it helps to be able to demo both sides of technique for everyone in the class, regardless of what handed they are.
Barry in IN
Amateur
As a sometimes AUG user, I thought people had to switch shoulders all the time. At least, that's the first thing I hear when someone sees me with an AUG 
Seriously, I have a question. I haven't taken every carbine class out there, but every time I've been taught shoulder transitions we are taught to switch hands also. Has anyone ever been taught to simply switch shoulders while keeping your hands in the usual place? That is much easier for me, both to do and to shoot from.
Seriously, I have a question. I haven't taken every carbine class out there, but every time I've been taught shoulder transitions we are taught to switch hands also. Has anyone ever been taught to simply switch shoulders while keeping your hands in the usual place? That is much easier for me, both to do and to shoot from.
The drill I know of has the shooter bringing the carbine to the other shoulder and firing an initial shot without moving the hands, and then switching the hands for subsequent shots. Then transfer back and repeat. So yeah, I've been taught to keep hands in the initial places... Having said that, I think transitioning the hands makes for better body mechanics when negotiating corners or shooting around cover. I've only ever done it in training and range sessions, so take my opinion for what it's worth.
ROMPER
Amateur
Excellent topic. Starting off as someone else who teaches (this was mentioned above) working with the south paw folks it is better to be able to teach lefties how to do things from their side of the rifle....I make instructor candidates do this (magazine changes, malfunction clearance, and shooting from the support side) so they understand how to teach it. How many of us have heard instructors tell lefties to just mirror image a technique? Seriously, can not be done as controls are on the wrong side.
As far as conforming to cover, this is where it shines.....as well as approach to a "wrong sided corner". I used single point slings.....ever since switching from the old shitty 3 points that came with the MP5s we used back in the day. With a single point transition from shoulder to shoulder works.......it can be done with an over the shoulder 2 point but there is an extra step that slows it down.
Understanding that it is a niche technique.....and probably not used as much it has its place......If one is comfortable shooting from their support side.
R
As far as conforming to cover, this is where it shines.....as well as approach to a "wrong sided corner". I used single point slings.....ever since switching from the old shitty 3 points that came with the MP5s we used back in the day. With a single point transition from shoulder to shoulder works.......it can be done with an over the shoulder 2 point but there is an extra step that slows it down.
Understanding that it is a niche technique.....and probably not used as much it has its place......If one is comfortable shooting from their support side.
R