RATS tourniquet case studies or actual use reviews

275RLTW

275RLTW

Regular Member
JUDAN said:
I personally use RAT's along with my agency. Jeff is nice enough to provide at cost pricing and IMO it's easier to deploy. Cost alone is a huge factor let alone being able to deploy one-handed.


You can see a page of endorsements


http://ratsmedical.com/pages/medical-endorsements



I also find it interesting that RE factor states " Q: Who currently uses the R.A.T.S.?
A: Many teams in the SOF community, DOD, and LE."



The R.A.T.S. (Rapid Application Tourniquet System) was designed based on feedback from the battlefield where soldiers required a tourniquet that could be easily applied and offered a low profile carry. The tourniquet is already in use around the world by varying SOF elements and has been proven on the battlefield. The R.A.T.S. can fit just about anywhere on your kit and can be quickly applied to an extremity using one hand.

  • 1/2″ Flat Bungee Cord quickly stops the bleeding
  • Low profile carry
  • Robust locking system
  • Half the price of traditional tourniquets
  • Made in the USA

Q: The band looks very thin. Will it cause tissue damage?
A: No. The R.A.T.S. tourniquet is designed to expand with tissue as it swells from injury. Traditional nylon tourniquets cannot accommodate the swelling tissue, and can potentially cause damage. The elastic used in the R.A.T.S. will more effectively allow for tissue expansion without the pressure of the tourniquet increasing.

Q: The band is not as wide as a standard tourniquet. Will it stop heavy femoral bleeds?
A: Yes. The R.A.T.S. measures at .5” wide. The repetition of wraps is so effective because it functions in principle like “tandem tourniquet placement”.

Q: Is this TCCC approved?
A: TCCC does not approve or deny any medical equipment for the military as it is no longer a function of the committee. Authority lies with the medical director of each area or jurisdiction. With that said, the R.A.T.S. is currently undergoing evaluation by TCCC. So far voting members of TCCC have tested and recommended the R.A.T.S. for use.

Q: Can this be used on children and K9s?
A: Yes. The design of the R.A.T.S. allows for it to be used on smaller extremities where as current issued tourniquets, to include the CAT, SOF-T, and METTs, do not.

Q: Who currently uses the R.A.T.S.?
A: Many teams in the SOF community, DOD, and LE.



https://www.refactortactical.com/shop/rats-tourniquet/
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Thanks for copying from the webpage as if no one here has already read that. Personal preferences and cost savings are not factors when chosing a life saving device. Endorsements hold some validity, based upon the width and depth of those endorsing it. The fact that CoTCCC is not endorsing it says a lot which is why we are looking for actual studies and not just good feelings or assurances from salesmen.
 
Dan Easterday

Dan Easterday

Member
Glad you can copy and paste marketing material from the company. Now please point me to an accredited case study where the RATS has been shown to provide arterial occlusion under doppler testing, or any type of study showing its effectiveness being equal to or greater than an SOFT or CAT.

Your post provided absolutely no new information to this thread. I'm not trying to be a dick, but it's the truth.
 
JUDAN

JUDAN

Member
Dan Easterday said:
Glad you can copy and paste marketing material from the company. Now please point me to an accredited case study where the RATS has been shown to provide arterial occlusion under doppler testing, or any type of study showing its effectiveness being equal to or greater than an SOFT or CAT.

Your post provided absolutely no new information to this thread. I'm not trying to be a dick, but it's the truth.
Click to expand...


Highly doubt it if you would look at that link you would see actual medical studies that were conducted by people in the field also. It's funny because I was going to copy and paste the major ones and did it I guess I need to cover my bases from now on. Like I said I did not see a lot of good feedback about rats on the Facebook group with primary and secondary and I didn't expect anything less here. I'll give you some real world experience my partner is 18 Delta and recommends rats. I trust my life with him.
 
Dan Easterday

Dan Easterday

Member
So, your partner is 18D and recommends them. How many times did he use them? What was their efficacy? What was the rate of roper application, and what was the average applications time? Other than being an 18D, what is his qualifications for giving an informed opinion?

There are a lot of things to get wrong with the RATS, and one of the big issues is how you have to get consecutive loops in order to get good occlusion. From a standpoint of correct first use under time and stress, there is no comparison to a windlass TQ in terms of first shot efficacy, and that is why RATS is not recommended by TCCC or any of the other major players in emergency medicine.

The medical studies on the RATS page have been found lacking in terms of satisfactory information and repeatability of results.

Are you a medical professional? Do you have direct, first hand experience applying a RATS to a person to stop an arterial bleed? If the answer is no, then you might want to stop advocating for a company that you have no first hand knowledge of other than training.

DISCLAIMER:
I am nothing but a former EMT that is a training junkie, and that includes medical training. This means that you will probably start to ignore me because I'm not a cop, and therefore, there's no possible way that I could know anything about anything (Hint, I used to do armed security alongside police in urban housing areas and other stuff). My whole deal here is getting good info about products and techniques, and the RATS leaves more questions unanswered than it answers. Many people who have much more subject matter knowledge have questioned the efficacy of this product to the point where I am not going to use it, and in order for me to use it, I want solid evidence that it will perform as good as or better than a windlass based TQ.

I'm almost tempted to buy a trainer CAT and do some time studies on self application between the RATS and the Gen 7 CAT (which is much easier to apply to yourself due to eliminating the second buckle).
 
275RLTW

275RLTW

Regular Member
JUDAN said:
Highly doubt it if you would look at that link you would see actual medical studies that were conducted by people in the field also. It's funny because I was going to copy and paste the major ones and did it I guess I need to cover my bases from now on. Like I said I did not see a lot of good feedback about rats on the Facebook group with primary and secondary and I didn't expect anything less here. I'll give you some real world experience my partner is 18 Delta and recommends rats. I trust my life with him.
Click to expand...

Therein lies the issue with recommendations from a third party or from a person here and there. It's just personal preference and not quantifyable data. We've got several 18Ds on staff here and they all recommend a crevat and stick over a RATS but that is just 3rd party info. Unlike the basic Facebook group, this forum requires data to back up statements and that people read the entire thread before commenting in order to keep the BS out.



I could add that with all the units that train here on a daily basis (JSOC, AWG, NSW, MARSOC, HRT, DOS, USMS, and others) NONE of them have ever been seen carrying a RATS but every one of them have CATs readily available.
 
JUDAN

JUDAN

Member
275RLTW said:
Therein lies the issue with recommendations from a third party or from a person here and there. It's just personal preference and not quantifyable data. We've got several 18Ds on staff here and they all recommend a crevat and stick over a RATS but that is just 3rd party info. Unlike the basic Facebook group, this forum requires data to back up statements and that people read the entire thread before commenting in order to keep the BS out.



I could add that with all the units that train here on a daily basis (JSOC, AWG, NSW, MARSOC, HRT, DOS, USMS, and others) NONE of them have ever been seen carrying a RATS but every one of them have CATs readily available.
Click to expand...

If a bear shits in the wood does it still smell?


For the record, I am a certified basic medical practitioner.
 
JUDAN

JUDAN

Member
Funker 530 much???

PERSONAL REVIEW ENDORSEMENTS
“I have used this TQ and carried it in combat. This TQ is extremely simple to use and very effective. This is also the only dual use TQ you can also use with dogs… Just FYI.”

~Evan Hafer



“We completely endorse the RATS. We use it during all of our pre-deployment medical training with our USGOV and DOD clients. Its proven. Owner of Aberrant training.”

~Aaron Holly



“Having used this during a TwistRate course a few months ago and I can say that’s it’s MUCH faster than trying to get a CAT system over a boot and knee pad or trying to feed it through the clips with gloves or bloody hands.”

~Funker 530



“I used this in a recent live tissue lab. They are very simple to use and stopped severe hemorrhaging extremely well. If you have any questions PM me. They are now part of my kit.”

~Intrepid Steve



“As an Army PA, I like it better than the old velcro type, esp with the wrapping technique.”

~Todd Kreykes



“I have used it in combat, actually the designer and developer was with me that trip. And was able to really explain how it works and give me a good class on it. It works well and does a good job especially in harder areas like brachial. The issue is that without about 20 min of training it can be confusing to people. Especially since it is designed to be wrapped directly next to the previous wrap (giving it more than 1.5 inches). But great piece of kit and another tool that doesn’t weigh but 6 ounces. Jeff is a terrific guy and I’d go on tgt with him any day. He will be glad to talk to you and answer any questions you have. Take a look at his Belt with integrated TQT. It’s another great tool.”

~Josh McElroy



“My shop is a dealer for the RATS, and we’ve got a ton of local LEO now carrying them on their gear. The ease of use, and compact storage, makes them an easy choice.”

~Tacti Cool



“Put yourself under an extremely stressful situation then try to apply some of these more complex TQS – not going to happen. What if your CAT is pre-prepped for easy application? Oh, and you can’t train with the CAT unless you want to waste a $25 piece of equipment. The 85% solution applied quickly and efficiently is better than the 99% that you can’t get on, can’t afford to buy or train with or don’t want to carry b/c it’s too bulky. Made my guys carry multiple TQS- these are a great option.”

~Toni Dixon III



“We went over these in a dark angel tac buddy aid course. Took some practice but lightning fast to apply to arms one handed. Pick a few up, they’re cheap – have one or two dedicated for training as you can’t reuse them for shtf situations. The more prep you put in the more effectively you’ll get back in the fight or just think of it as an edc should something occur in day to day(accidents happen)”

~Nick Davids



“These are awesome for the reasons listed but another very cool point is they are easy to carry as they will fit inside a standard handcuff case. That’s a huge bonus for civilian LEOs.”

~Nathan Ziegman
 
275RLTW

275RLTW

Regular Member
JUDAN said:
PERSONAL REVIEW ENDORSEMENTS
Click to expand...
JUDAN said:
“I have used this TQ and carried it in combat. This TQ is extremely simple to use and very effective. This is also the only dual use TQ you can also use with dogs… Just FYI.”

~Evan Hafer



“We completely endorse the RATS. We use it during all of our pre-deployment medical training with our USGOV and DOD clients. Its proven. Owner of Aberrant training.”

~Aaron Holly



“Having used this during a TwistRate course a few months ago and I can say that’s it’s MUCH faster than trying to get a CAT system over a boot and knee pad or trying to feed it through the clips with gloves or bloody hands.”

~Funker 530



“I used this in a recent live tissue lab. They are very simple to use and stopped severe hemorrhaging extremely well. If you have any questions PM me. They are now part of my kit.”

~Intrepid Steve



“As an Army PA, I like it better than the old velcro type, esp with the wrapping technique.”

~Todd Kreykes



“I have used it in combat, actually the designer and developer was with me that trip. And was able to really explain how it works and give me a good class on it. It works well and does a good job especially in harder areas like brachial. The issue is that without about 20 min of training it can be confusing to people. Especially since it is designed to be wrapped directly next to the previous wrap (giving it more than 1.5 inches). But great piece of kit and another tool that doesn’t weigh but 6 ounces. Jeff is a terrific guy and I’d go on tgt with him any day. He will be glad to talk to you and answer any questions you have. Take a look at his Belt with integrated TQT. It’s another great tool.”

~Josh McElroy



“My shop is a dealer for the RATS, and we’ve got a ton of local LEO now carrying them on their gear. The ease of use, and compact storage, makes them an easy choice.”

~Tacti Cool



“Put yourself under an extremely stressful situation then try to apply some of these more complex TQS – not going to happen. What if your CAT is pre-prepped for easy application? Oh, and you can’t train with the CAT unless you want to waste a $25 piece of equipment. The 85% solution applied quickly and efficiently is better than the 99% that you can’t get on, can’t afford to buy or train with or don’t want to carry b/c it’s too bulky. Made my guys carry multiple TQS- these are a great option.”

~Toni Dixon III



“We went over these in a dark angel tac buddy aid course. Took some practice but lightning fast to apply to arms one handed. Pick a few up, they’re cheap – have one or two dedicated for training as you can’t reuse them for shtf situations. The more prep you put in the more effectively you’ll get back in the fight or just think of it as an edc should something occur in day to day(accidents happen)”

~Nick Davids



“These are awesome for the reasons listed but another very cool point is they are easy to carry as they will fit inside a standard handcuff case. That’s a huge bonus for civilian LEOs.”

~Nathan Ziegman
Click to expand...




So you quoted a bunch of paid testimonials from their page? Again, you falsely assume that none of us have been to their website and done our due diligence (further indicating that you haven't read the thread per the site instructions). Quoting "TactiCool" shop, unknown training organizations or even Evan Hafer (WPS and OGA contracts are not "combat") don't add any validity to your claims. Neither does your random post about being a basic medical practitioner. WTF does that have to do with TCCC? You claim "civilian non-sworn, working in operations at a private agency" and "I personally use RAT's along with my agency" as well. I suggest you vett yourself with the mods as you are making some big claims and have done nothing to show the attention to detail and thoroughness (or reading comprehension) that accompanies those positions. Following that, future contributions to this thread would be verifiable data and not just statements from random people saying "the owner was a nice guy" or anything with the phrase "I feel..."

In the words of Tallahassee, "nut up or shut up."
 
J

jake0331

Newbie
Judan,

Here's the thing you're working against here. I, and alot of the guys on here, know from personal experience overseas and conus that cats and sof-Ts work. On top of that there is tons of research that states it does. So, here is the question. What does a rat tq do better than the aforementioned ones that would make me switch and trust my Marines lives with it? I don't care about some dude on the internets word, I don't care if the manufacturer is a good dude. Will it save my Marines life and does it do it better than the existing options. If it doesn't, I don't want anything to do with it.
We are talking about a product that when it is used, needs to do its job 100% of the time.
 
mark1911

mark1911

<Catchy Title Coming Soon>
Staff member
Moderator
Vendor
All,

If you read my earlier posts regarding the RATS, you know where I'm coming from with regards to that item.

Evan, and Aaron are friends. They have exceptional experience. Lets not go down the road of offering opinions as to where they worked, or what your perceived opinions are about their experiences.

Thank you, mark

Quoting "TactiCool" shop, unknown training organizations or even Evan Hafer (WPS and OGA contracts are not "combat") don't add any validity to your claims. Neither does your random post about being a basic medical practitioner.
 
Dan Easterday

Dan Easterday

Member
I would think at this point, given all of the things going on in the world, that if there were a successful use of a RATS on an arterial extremity bleed, that RATS would be singing it from the rooftops. DARK has a list of confirmed saves with their kit, so we elbow it's possible to track that kind of stuff.

We have over a decade of usage data in windlass TQs at this point to back up why we use the CAT and SOFT. we know where the failures were, and what steps were taken to improve the design.

From a layman's point of view, I still find it difficult to believe that I can properly apply a RATS quicker than Gen7 CAT. this is especially true of a leg use. the need to verify that the wraps are touching in the RATS is a problem for me, especially under pain and stress that would accompany the need to use a TQ.

Like the dude said, I want the science here, and I want extensive testing and proof before I will use a lifesaving device
 
JUDAN

JUDAN

Member
Carry what you want but lord know's I don't have the time to debate this non-sense.

Reach out to Jeff and get the real story and use it in the real world like the rest of us...
 
JUDAN

JUDAN

Member
This is the stuff of stuff that turns me off completely. I base my choices off facts and not internet raves and rants. You are right I must be in the wrong forum.



popularmecha.jpg





"
All badassness aside, Jeff’s tourniquets have been endorsed by medical professionals, combat veterans, and special forces guys all over the place. If you head over to the endorsements section of the RATS tourniquet website, you can see that these things work very well.

I spoke with a good buddy of mine over at Funker530.com about the RATS tourniquet before writing this. He told me that a few years ago he was wounded pretty bad in combat and attempted to put 3 CAT tourniquets on himself before cranking the windless off of every single one of them from an adrenaline rush. He told me that he wishes that there were some RATS tourniquets around for him to use.

With that being said, I’m not bashing RAT, SOFTT, or SWATT tourniquets. My buddy from Funker also told me that they used several RAT tourniquets to save his friend’s life who was wounded in the same fight. There are different applications for all of them and they are all useful at stopping people from dying. From talking with the inventor of RATS, doing research on them, and personally applying them to myself and my family the past few days, I know that they will work to stop severe hemorrhaging.

I would like to take this chance to personally apologize to my fiance and kids: I’m sorry for ambushing you the past few weeks, holding you down, and cutting off bloodflow to an extremity. I like these tourniquets."





http://bluelivesmatter.blue/product-spotlight-rats-tourniquet/
 
275RLTW

275RLTW

Regular Member
I guess since it on a magazine cover you should also start wearing a knee holster and use Tracking Point rifles too. And since you (a self proclaimed medical practitioner and security guard) tested it on your family and said it worked then it must be fact. What were we thinking by asking for proof?!

You've voiced your OPINION. If you're not providing fact then go back to your lane.
 

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JUDAN

JUDAN

Member
275RLTW said:
I guess since it on a magazine cover you should also start wearing a knee holster and use Tracking Point rifles too. And since you (a self proclaimed medical practitioner and security guard) tested it on your family and said it worked then it must be fact. What were we thinking by asking for proof?!

You've voiced your OPINION. If you're not providing fact then go back to your lane.
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Not at all.

No, I am actually certified and was a caregiver/bodyguard for a person with a TBI. But that's another story.


Well, when various members of various communities are preaching and practicing that they use RATS my ears perk up.


I honestly wish I was a lonely security guard if only life was that easy....


You ask for it I have it. If you don't want to take cold hard facts and actual endorsements you are just in denial....


This is my lane :)
 
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