What are things to look for?
Which brands of AK type rifles should be pursued and which to be avoided?
- Thread starter Matt Landfair
- Start date
mallninja
Newbie
Been very happy with my Saiga. Got it in 5.56 and I got an adapter so it will take AR mags. It started as a "sporter" and I did the conversion (moving the trigger group, adding the right # of American made parts to make it compliant) which was pretty easy. But I don't think they're importing them anymore. Eats whatever I feed it and shoots about 2 moa.
regdudedrtyjob
Regular Member
I had a Saiga 7.62x39 for 7 years. I bought it with the conversion still done, but it only accepted Saiga mags, and had no flash hider on the barrel. I never shot it for groups, but 2 MOA sounds about right. I thought I read somewhere that they actually came with a cold hammer forged barrel from the factory. I got rid of it in a trade for a SIG 226. I did that because I felt it would just be easier to buy an Arsenal than send the Saiga off somewhere to get a muzzle device put on and make it accept AK- pattern mags. I also was thinking that I want an AK-pattern rifle in 5.56, sort of consolidating ammo types.
I also did this before SHOT Show, when Magpul came out with all their stuff and Geissele introduced their AK trigger. Rats.
I also did this before SHOT Show, when Magpul came out with all their stuff and Geissele introduced their AK trigger. Rats.
mallninja
Newbie
I also had a Norinco Mak-91 ("National Match version of the Mak-90). Was well built but with a thumb hole stock. The Saiga was a fun little project, and there are a lot of after market parts. Some of what's on there is Tapco, which I would not be caught dead with on my ARs but it for some reason doesn't bother me on the saiga. ![unnamed[1].jpg](https://primaryandsecondary.com/forum/data/attachments/0/194-b6ab51b3ad96d9b17a40efdcac11f167.jpg "unnamed[1].jpg")
Cory Esson
Newbie
The MAK 90 is awesome. With a little work they will look like a proper Ak
Arsenal is probably the best production gun available at the moment. The siaga are good as well but they aren't as heavy duty as the arsenal.
Arsenal is probably the best production gun available at the moment. The siaga are good as well but they aren't as heavy duty as the arsenal.
AKMer
Newbie
Arsenal inc. is the best off the shelf AK at the moment, my SGL-21 has run with zero gun related malfunctions for several thousand rounds. Unfortunately with the sanctions on Russian firearms Saiga pattern rifles are no longer being imported, there have been rumors of some clever work arounds but nothing confirmed. But Arsenal of Bulgaria is still able import SLR pattern rifles through Arsenal inc.
Century Arms guns can either be great or absolute crap. Rifles they import and do little work to can turn out pretty well, others not so much. Things to look for are straightness of the rifle over all, canted front or rear trunnions can introduce issues. Look for canted front sights, this may just be the sight was put on crooked, the front trunnion wasn't installed correctly or the rear sight tower is canted. Often these rifles will not have concentric bores, so be careful if you attempt to suppress them. My M92 PAP is well built and been a good shooter. My WASR has been nothing but problems and after 2 trips back for "repairs" Century is replacing the rifle.
I do not have first hand experience with IO inc. but running in many AK circles I have found they should be avoided at all costs, they claim to have improved their quality but there business practices should be enough to steer clear. I also don't have experience with DDI. They are fairly new to the game and seems to be doing well, they have milled guns on the market that are doing well and are working on stamped AKs currently. Keep an eye on DDI, they are a promising company.
Century Arms guns can either be great or absolute crap. Rifles they import and do little work to can turn out pretty well, others not so much. Things to look for are straightness of the rifle over all, canted front or rear trunnions can introduce issues. Look for canted front sights, this may just be the sight was put on crooked, the front trunnion wasn't installed correctly or the rear sight tower is canted. Often these rifles will not have concentric bores, so be careful if you attempt to suppress them. My M92 PAP is well built and been a good shooter. My WASR has been nothing but problems and after 2 trips back for "repairs" Century is replacing the rifle.
I do not have first hand experience with IO inc. but running in many AK circles I have found they should be avoided at all costs, they claim to have improved their quality but there business practices should be enough to steer clear. I also don't have experience with DDI. They are fairly new to the game and seems to be doing well, they have milled guns on the market that are doing well and are working on stamped AKs currently. Keep an eye on DDI, they are a promising company.
The days of the 21-61 and all the arsenal Saiga conversions is probably over until the Russian sanctions are over. That said the 104/107/Sam7 Bulgarian guns are available and nice rifles.
When you talk about Century, you have to be careful...there are foreign arsenal built guns, like the WASR 10 and the N-Pap/O-Pap series, there are kit built guns like the M70, GP1975, etc., there are Gen 1 US C39 guns, and there are the new C39v2 guns and the new US stamped guns. All have different characteristics. Guns built in Romania and Yugoslavia come in neutered and get converted back to normal. This used to be subcontract, and now, I've seen them doing it in house, which is good...they've got some new guys over the past few years from GD who have re-vamped the manufacturing operation into something impressive. Still, on these guns, you get what the foreign arsenal gives you, and although everything is test fired...they crank them out for export over there at the cyclic rate. The Yugos are smoother and more refined, as long as no chrome in the barrel is not a show stopper for you. The Romanian guns can be made to run and are the proper weight/handling characteristics for an AKM, but I think of them as assembled parts kits. Most likely need to have some edges smoothed out. The kit build guns, built on US receivers and barrels depend on who actually built them up and the quality of the parts to begin with. YMMV. The new V2 C39 models have been very impressive, and making a milled receiver that takes the more available stamped furniture is a big plus. We've shot a few of these guns, and I've been very happy with the performance. The stamped guns look good, also, but I don't have any trigger time on them yet. These may be winners. The guys from GD know manufacturing, tolerances, and QA/QC and I've been very impressed in our dealings.
I also have a few Interarms guns that are quite nice. They are essentially kit builds, but they use chrome lined US made barrels that shoot very well, good receivers, and they are built on a proper build table. They've got a guy or two from Arsenal of Bulgaria working there, so it's guys who know how to build rifles.
I haven't shot the new Palmetto Guns, so I'll reserve comment, but that's another option to look at.
I've heard very good and some, but far less not so good reports about WaffenWorks 74 builds, but once again, I have not handled or fired these, so I'll not comment.
When you talk about Century, you have to be careful...there are foreign arsenal built guns, like the WASR 10 and the N-Pap/O-Pap series, there are kit built guns like the M70, GP1975, etc., there are Gen 1 US C39 guns, and there are the new C39v2 guns and the new US stamped guns. All have different characteristics. Guns built in Romania and Yugoslavia come in neutered and get converted back to normal. This used to be subcontract, and now, I've seen them doing it in house, which is good...they've got some new guys over the past few years from GD who have re-vamped the manufacturing operation into something impressive. Still, on these guns, you get what the foreign arsenal gives you, and although everything is test fired...they crank them out for export over there at the cyclic rate. The Yugos are smoother and more refined, as long as no chrome in the barrel is not a show stopper for you. The Romanian guns can be made to run and are the proper weight/handling characteristics for an AKM, but I think of them as assembled parts kits. Most likely need to have some edges smoothed out. The kit build guns, built on US receivers and barrels depend on who actually built them up and the quality of the parts to begin with. YMMV. The new V2 C39 models have been very impressive, and making a milled receiver that takes the more available stamped furniture is a big plus. We've shot a few of these guns, and I've been very happy with the performance. The stamped guns look good, also, but I don't have any trigger time on them yet. These may be winners. The guys from GD know manufacturing, tolerances, and QA/QC and I've been very impressed in our dealings.
I also have a few Interarms guns that are quite nice. They are essentially kit builds, but they use chrome lined US made barrels that shoot very well, good receivers, and they are built on a proper build table. They've got a guy or two from Arsenal of Bulgaria working there, so it's guys who know how to build rifles.
I haven't shot the new Palmetto Guns, so I'll reserve comment, but that's another option to look at.
I've heard very good and some, but far less not so good reports about WaffenWorks 74 builds, but once again, I have not handled or fired these, so I'll not comment.
That falls into which category?
If you want to talk high end, both Jim Fuller and Marc Krebs do great work, and at that point, your philosophy of AK use has as much to do with the decision as anything. I don't yet have any of Jim's guns, although I've shot a few and handled more. I do have several Krebs guns that I am very happy with.
And, if you can find an unmolested MAK90, GTG, although the tang is longer and the thick receiver requires some furniture fitting. They are usually gassed pretty hot in the samples I've seen, even for an AK. My truck rifle is a MAK.
Veprs are some of the nicest guns out there, but HEAVY barrels limit some options and make them quite "robust" to carry about.
And, if you can find an unmolested MAK90, GTG, although the tang is longer and the thick receiver requires some furniture fitting. They are usually gassed pretty hot in the samples I've seen, even for an AK. My truck rifle is a MAK.
Veprs are some of the nicest guns out there, but HEAVY barrels limit some options and make them quite "robust" to carry about.
Some of the worst assembled, by drunk syphilis ridden monkeys on crack, guns that I have ever seen have come from Century
Yes, indeed...sold by century. As I said, kit builds done by subcontractors and Cugir-built WASRs or Yugo built N-PAP or O-PAPs are what they are. I don't recommend any of the kit builds and the Romy and Yugo guns are best inspected before purchase. The new C39V2 and stamped guns made there deserve a closer look, though, and both WASRs and Yugo arsenal built guns (little "a" not big "A") can be very good, the WASRs generally requiring a little work, if you can pick a winner and screen for issues from the country of origin.
Used to be the best deal was simply buying a thumbhole Mak-90 and doing a proper conversion (which unfortunately includes adding US compliance parts to satisfy 922r). For a good little while Saiga rifles converted by Arsenal were the best deal going.
These days? Well, you have some options, but I think if I were starting from square one today I simply wouldn't go through the hassle. Yes, I fully understand that doesn't fall into the original question.
The problem with many guns these days is that they are assembled using a myriad of parts from assorted nations. Even the ones that come from, "matching kits" can be dubious because you're essentially purchasing a used rifle done up to look brand new. Arsenal, as mentioned, is usually a good bet. Even still, occasionally you can run into issues that used to just crop up on the lower end of the scale (IE: canted front sights, canted RSBs (rear sight blocks) etc).
If you know what to look for, the lowly WASR isn't all that bad, but still not anything I would go out of my way to put into the safe.
These days? Well, you have some options, but I think if I were starting from square one today I simply wouldn't go through the hassle. Yes, I fully understand that doesn't fall into the original question.
The problem with many guns these days is that they are assembled using a myriad of parts from assorted nations. Even the ones that come from, "matching kits" can be dubious because you're essentially purchasing a used rifle done up to look brand new. Arsenal, as mentioned, is usually a good bet. Even still, occasionally you can run into issues that used to just crop up on the lower end of the scale (IE: canted front sights, canted RSBs (rear sight blocks) etc).
If you know what to look for, the lowly WASR isn't all that bad, but still not anything I would go out of my way to put into the safe.