The fitness forum is a little lonely

#1
Sad to see the focus is so much on the firearm and so little on making the body more capable. Maybe this post is out of whack but I'd like to try and drum up some more interest in strength/fitness on this forum (by that I just mean making this post). What do you guys think is the reason that even many well respected instructors give so little attention to fitness for themselves and their students? I could see it being the fact that being strong is one of the most difficult things to get people to do. I myself have subscribed mostly to the Starting Strength program and have progressed past the Novice Linear Progression and into the 4-Day Split. It's done wonders for my overall abilities to interact with the world around me and I'm convinced that a strong body is the first step to being as capable as you can be. (I'm not a strength coach and SS doesn't give me anything, I just like the program).
 
#2
Sad to see the focus is so much on the firearm and so little on making the body more capable.

What do you guys think is the reason that even many well respected instructors give so little attention to fitness for themselves and their students? I could see it being the fact that being strong is one of the most difficult things to get people to do.
There's a lot here.

  • I’m going to instructors or reading their work or watching their videos to learn to shoot better or to learn better tactics. I don’t expect instructors to be jack-of-all-trades and provide workout advice, too. I get that from other sources. Forums fall in that category . I’m on other forums dedicated to fitness. However, with a notable exception or two, it seems like the ‘national-level’ instructors take pretty good care of themselves. I can't speak to all the regional or local trainers that I'm not keeping up with.

  • Many, but certainly not all, folks are not logical about self-preservation. I can make a strong case that if your profession doesn’t require you to carry a weapon, don’t worry even about it.* But dying because a thug got the best of you in a Wal-mart parking lot is for some a bigger concern than dying of coronary disease – when statistically the latter is incredibly much more likely. But humans aren’t rational.

  • Shooting pistols and guns (and buying pistols and guns and accessories) and reading and writing about pistols and guns is easier and more fun that working up to a 405 back squat for many. I think this is obvious.

*If you are a civilian (using the M-W definition here by which I mean not .mil or LEO), and you want to carry a pistol for self-preservation and to protect your family, I encourage it. Don’t get me wrong. (But you should also get your health in check.) But if you are serious about it, why are you spending so much time, money and other resources with that AR with the variable power optic. You are not going to shoot someone 300 meters away. Those resources would be better spent practicing with the pistol, combatives, fitness, etc. I could argue that any time with the carbine is a matter of misplaced priorities.

Kyle Defoor says it better than I can. Many will have already read this. It’s a good read if you haven’t.

https://kyledefoor.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F105099857118
 
#3
I wasn't able to edit. I should note that Defoor was speaking about fitness from a fight (or flight) perspective. Being fit will help you in a fight or in case you need to flee.

My point is even further and more mundane. Being fit will help you live longer and live well as you age.
 
#5
I think its an expectation that you should be "in-shape". For the most part, shooting requires a level of physical capability. The more advanced shooting and tactics, the more capable you need to be. With this assumption made, there really isn't a need for firearms instructors to be the ones pushing it during their classes.

I think firearms classes should keep the main thing, the main thing. If I need physical fitness instruction, I'm going to find a resident expert in that field. If both of those skills intersect (IE Pat Mac, etc) then awesome. I'd equate the this to be the same situation as a great shooter might not be a great firearms smith.

I'd say that mobility is at a higher level of priority than just strength.
 
#6
I'd say that mobility is at a higher level of priority than just strength.
You may be right here. I'm guilty of spending a lot of time and effort trying to bump my deadlift or one-arm kb press up, but it's been years since I've done the Illinois Agility run (a FLETC requirement but usually not done by many agencies after the initial training, at least as far as I know.) I need to work on this.
 
#7
Here’s my piece... I am a way better strength athlete than i am a shooter or tactician. I do not carry a gun occupationally anymore. However I still lift some heavy weights 5 times a week. Shooting and everything aside. Please. For the love of god. Don’t stick with Starting Strength. It’s a low volume, low intensity, low frequency program. Don’t become emotionally attached to it. Drop it, pick up some actual work and get cock diesel. Give 5/3/1 a look, however that’s not as cut and dry. More abstract and conceptual. Do Bulgarian Light, GVT, Conjugate.... Just not Starting Strength.
 
#9
Jiu-jitsu 2 days a week. Wrestling 1 day a week. 3 mile hike with kit, often at night with Nods, combined with shooting drills, sprints, buddy carries, light body weight exercises etc. 2 days a week, Sauna 2 or 3 days a week. Intermittent fasting, low carb, aim for 7 hours of sleep a night.
Im 49, civilian, i just like to train

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#10
I'd say that mobility is at a higher level of priority than just strength.
I think you'd find interesting Rippetoe's teaching on that idea. There are many things that people train for that they really could get along the way with strength training. Torque moves mass, and if I think I know what you mean by mobility, that is agility and speed, a lot of that comes for free by just making the motors bigger. Rip use to say, "The bigger motor is not going to make the car go slower."
 
#11
Here’s my piece... I am a way better strength athlete than i am a shooter or tactician. I do not carry a gun occupationally anymore. However I still lift some heavy weights 5 times a week. Shooting and everything aside. Please. For the love of god. Don’t stick with Starting Strength. It’s a low volume, low intensity, low frequency program. Don’t become emotionally attached to it. Drop it, pick up some actual work and get cock diesel. Give 5/3/1 a look, however that’s not as cut and dry. More abstract and conceptual. Do Bulgarian Light, GVT, Conjugate.... Just not Starting Strength.
Look up the 4-day split like I mentioned I am doing right now. Starting Strength features a novice LP that is the START. You are meant to go as far as you can with that and then decide if you'd like to do something like a 5/3/1, 4-day, or Light-Medium-Heavy. Much more volume is added with these programs and continues the progression of strength. I PR 1x5 with intensity with a lift every time I go in the gym and I do volume every time I go in the gym along with assistance exercises. The volume portion is designed to get one "Cock dieseled." Volume is to grow the muscles and intensity is to keep the CNS in check and make sure volume day is working. I go up 5lbs a week on every lift and I went up 5-15lbs a week depending on the lift when I was doing novice LP. Most of the workouts you mentioned look very similar to the one I'm on. With the many thousands of people who have followed the advice written in "Practical Programming for Strength Training," I think it's hard to argue against it. Conjugate is also designed for geared lifters.
 
#12
There's a lot here.

I’m going to instructors or reading their work or watching their videos to learn to shoot better or to learn better tactics. I don’t expect instructors to be jack-of-all-trades and provide workout advice, too. I get that from other sources. Forums fall in that category . I’m on other forums dedicated to fitness. However, with a notable exception or two, it seems like the ‘national-level’ instructors take pretty good care of themselves. I can't speak to all the regional or local trainers that I'm not keeping up with.
I'm not saying that they have to give advice on workouts. My issue partly comes from the fact that I've been in more than one class where some of the students are unfit to the point of being dangerous. At that point I don't think there's anything wrong with even just saying a few paragraphs to people about being fit enough to even just take the class. I understand most websites say as much, but I wouldn't mind trying to help them actually say it to them in person. People might be going to them for firearm instruction but if their own bodies are getting in the way of learning, I think there's a problem.

Many, but certainly not all, folks are not logical about self-preservation. I can make a strong case that if your profession doesn’t require you to carry a weapon, don’t worry even about it.* But dying because a thug got the best of you in a Wal-mart parking lot is for some a bigger concern than dying of coronary disease – when statistically the latter is incredibly much more likely. But humans aren’t rational.
Yup, on top of the fact that it can look embarrassing and be boring, which shouldn't be an excuse for anyone.

Shooting pistols and guns (and buying pistols and guns and accessories) and reading and writing about pistols and guns is easier and more fun that working up to a 405 back squat for many. I think this is obvious.
It sure is man.
 
#13
*If you are a civilian (using the M-W definition here by which I mean not .mil or LEO), and you want to carry a pistol for self-preservation and to protect your family, I encourage it. Don’t get me wrong. (But you should also get your health in check.) But if you are serious about it, why are you spending so much time, money and other resources with that AR with the variable power optic. You are not going to shoot someone 300 meters away. Those resources would be better spent practicing with the pistol, combatives, fitness, etc. I could argue that any time with the carbine is a matter of misplaced priorities.
That brings up an interesting question. Being this is over the Internet and all I have is text, I hope I gather this correctly. If you could argue it, then would you? And if so then should civilians spend ANY time on carbine? If they do, should it be extremely minimal and only for home defense? As in literally just your family in your house.
 
#14
I think in the same way that mission drives gear, it also drives how you should work out.

I need the strong back/legs to lug all my SWAT shit around for extended periods of time. I need brute strength (separate from DT training) to over-power resistance and scoop them up when they go all dead-weight when it's time to go in the back seat. I've found that in my work environment, I need enough cardio to pace people when I finally decide to get out of my car after I've run out of driving room. I've got plenty of cardio, but it definitely is a lower priority to my weight lifting. I've found that a lot of guys are shifting to almost all cardio and leaving weight lifting behind. I can say with great certainty that I've felt the fight drain out of someone when you grab a hold of them and they realized that they've tugged on Superman's cape.

As far as what I do, I keep it changing. I've done splits, 5x5, push/pull, body-part specific, hypertrophy, HIT, 6-12-25 (oh my), etc... just try to keep my body guessing. The one thing I don't do is Crossfit because *** for me ***, the few times I've tried it, I get too carried away with reps/time and lose form and pay the pain price later.

Your mileage may vary.

Now, back to the original OP about why the lack of attention to it as opposed to shooting? The path of least resistance as in shooting is easier than squatting... I truly believe that.
 
#15
More active on the discord and there’s a bit of fitness related talk and what not there. Including the occasional challenge thrown out (50 KB snatches at 53lbs for time etc) but for me working both the 11b and LE side of the house, I use Military Athlete and CST from PatMac. MA has good programming and is expanding into LE, Fire, and EMS as well as there just general programming. CST is good for when time is short, some of his templates will show you that you can get a good workout session in with basically what you have laying around in 15-20 minutes. EVERYONE has 15-20 minutes to spare in a day. Think you don’t? You’re fooling yourself, do a time audit and you’ll find you have more time per day then you think.

To give a idea on Military Athletes programming, I did Fortitude and finished up 2-3 weeks ago. In that 7 weeks I added 20 pounds each onto my 3 rep max deadlift, bench, squat, walking lunges and brought my weighted pull ups from 10 to 13 (I’m at 14 now) as well as building up my rucking and running base (program didn’t focus on time but distance)
 
#16
Look up the 4-day split like I mentioned I am doing right now. Starting Strength features a novice LP that is the START. You are meant to go as far as you can with that and then decide if you'd like to do something like a 5/3/1, 4-day, or Light-Medium-Heavy. Much more volume is added with these programs and continues the progression of strength. I PR 1x5 with intensity with a lift every time I go in the gym and I do volume every time I go in the gym along with assistance exercises. The volume portion is designed to get one "Cock dieseled." Volume is to grow the muscles and intensity is to keep the CNS in check and make sure volume day is working. I go up 5lbs a week on every lift and I went up 5-15lbs a week depending on the lift when I was doing novice LP. Most of the workouts you mentioned look very similar to the one I'm on. With the many thousands of people who have followed the advice written in "Practical Programming for Strength Training," I think it's hard to argue against it. Conjugate is also designed for geared lifters.
Conjugate has most often been used by equipped lifters, historically. You are correct. I’d even agree that it was designed for them. However, I personally lift with a handful of raw natty lifters who run Conjugate with great success. They do not program it themselves, for what that’s worth. It’s a complex system with a huge focus on variation. If Starting Strength is still doing it for you, and LP is taking it’s course, then you don’t need variation yet. However in time, once you’re truly beginning to hit high levels of strength and LP is slowing way down... you’ll likely give Conjugate another look. And I would encourage you to do so at that point! Matt Wenning is an excellent resource on Conjugate for raw lifters. Lones Green of Calloused Hands Powerlifting is probably the most prominent Conjugate coach and has a big presence on social media. Don’t write anything off just because of who it was designed for. It can do wonders for you.