Frank Woods
May 27 at 3:10pm
Kevin, Roland, Chad, Richard, you guys know your shit about ammo. Any other experts feel free to jump in.
Please explain why/if 5.56x45mm is a better overall cartridge than 5.45x39mm. Any permutation of either cartridge applies. Does 5.45x39 possess any advantages over 5.56x45?
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Kevin Bolandit used to be really cheap
May 27 at 3:31pm · Like · 9 -
Matt LandfairDoes 39 have the variety of options 45 has? Bullet weights/types
May 27 at 3:44pm · Like -
Cory EssonJust a different approach to the same problem. Although the 7n6 will ricochet like no one's business.
May 27 at 3:47pm · Like · 1 -
Kevin BolandNo. And if you've seen DocGKR's slides the rounds don't do much. While there are more rounds for the 7.62x39 than 5.45, they both suffer from lower pressures and lack of any real efforts into designing a better round for the cartridge. Only so much you can do with it. If you look at what has been done in 6.8 or .300BK you can see what can be done with efforts.
May 27 at 3:50pm · Like · 2 -
Cory Esson5.45 Hornaday v max is about the best 5.45 available. And it's pretty affordable
May 27 at 3:53pm · Like -
Chris TaylorTo expand on what Matt said...At least in this country, we've spent the past 4 decades or so trying to improve the x45. Especially in the last 10-15yrs, tech has finally started to catch up to potential. You can't buy ready OTS ammo in x39 that has the breadth or depth of options that we have today in the x45. So yeah, x45 is mo'bettah from that stand point.
May 27 at 3:53pm · Like · 1 -
Frank WoodsI mean everything guys. Terminal ballistics, effective range, the works.
May 27 at 3:55pm · Like -
William David GuseThree things make a round effective on tissue, not talking about interior or exterior ballistics. Talking about wound ballistics: depth of penetration, size of permanent cavity and shot placement.
5.45 X 39 lacks a good permanent cavity, so does 7.62 X 39 for that matter. 5.56 has sufficient penetration with a good permanent cavity.
May 27 at 3:58pm · Edited · Like · 5 -
Timothy GiblinCheap way to go to a class that shoots 1200 rounds. Other than that I'll take 556.
May 27 at 3:58pm · Like · 1 -
Kevin BolandThe x39 rounds suffer from being a low pressure loading. So your never going to get the range/accuracy. Plus the guns themselves are a limiter for the most part. VMAX bullets generally suck for terminal effects in anymore more than a small deer sized animal as they don't penetrate well and give surface wounds or shallow wounds rarely reaching significant spots without pinpoint accuracy and a friendly angle.
May 27 at 3:59pm · Like · 1 -
Stephen S Palano39 makes it stated velocity in a 16 inch barrel, most 45 stated velocities are from 20 inch barrel. Case taper on 39 makes for a more inherently reliable feeding. 39 preforms better on tissue than 45 in their as issued form from a 16 inch barrel. Opinion from the darkside..
May 27 at 4:00pm · Like · 2 -
Kevin BolandNo one I shot with 5.56mm ever walked away. 7.62x39 not the same story. Also I have many friends alive today due to being shot with 7.62x39
May 27 at 4:01pm · Like · 7 -
Kevin BolandI've yet to see AK reliability match an M4 that is maintained properly.
May 27 at 4:02pm · Like · 9 -
Frank WoodsRobert John
May 27 at 4:03pm · Like · 1 -
Stephen S PalanoSorry Kevin i was speaking of the 5.45
May 27 at 4:03pm · Like -
Darin TalbotRound advantage, not a discussion in efficacy or subjective reliability of a platform
May 27 at 4:06pm · Like · 1 -
Frank WoodsDarin, a little wiggle room in that aspect is alright since it was part of what spawned the question.
May 27 at 4:07pm · Like -
Kevin Boland5.45 still suffers from low pressure and a poor effort into loadings. Most 5.56mm government loads are set for 10.3-14.5" barrels. I don't care about commercial ammo.
May 27 at 4:11pm · Like · 2 -
William David GuseI would think round advantage would include efficacy, platform performance and interior/exterior ballistics to decide its 'advantage' if any.
May 27 at 4:11pm · Like -
Darin TalbotSo you have tinned 545, a couple of commercially packaged load from former eastern bloc arsenals and the Hornady load vice umpteen bazillion load for .223/5.56
Do they both punch holes, yes, do they go bang 99.44 of presses... maybe...See More
May 27 at 4:13pm · Like -
Kevin BolandHonesty if you had access to a ton of 5.45 ammo it would be worth making a training upper for. But your not likely to have that anymore.
May 27 at 4:13pm · Like -
Darin TalbotYou can carry more of it than you can of the 762 cousins
May 27 at 4:13pm · Like -
William David GuseLighter and cheaper which is good because you need to use more for terminal effect.
May 27 at 4:18pm · Like · 1 -
Matt JamesBeyond yesterdays cheaper trainer, with the multitude of loads available for 45, from long range capable stuff, to AP, to general issue bullets that do well like SOST... why even ask.
More MV, heavier bullets ie better BCs, equals better trajectory and generally better terminal ballistics.
May 27 at 4:23pm · Like · 2 -
Cj HyattStephen S Palano, you said, "39 preforms better on tissue than 45 in their as issued form from a 16 inch barrel".
Do you have any proof of this?
May 27 at 4:50pm · Unlike · 5 -
Stephen S PalanoPersonally, no , i do not. Being an old fat guy now, i can only go off of what my friends have told me who have deployed in recent conflicts. My friends who went to iraq and afghanistan where less than impressed with the m855 rnd. Where as something some people who are aquainted
May 27 at 5:05pm · Like -
Stephen S PalanoWith people who are involved in the current conflict in the Ukraine do not voice the ,same issues. So i digress, here say mostly. Not here to argue, just here to learn and observe.
May 27 at 5:08pm · Unlike · 1 -
Matt JamesSo your bold claim was based on dubious third party anecsotal info and totally unfounded? Got it. If you wont want a debate, sont make unsubstaniated claims.
May 27 at 5:18pm · Edited · Like · 6 -
Arin F Lousignontthe advantage is i have about 12K of 545 sitting around and not nearly as much 556
May 27 at 5:36pm · Unlike · 1 -
Matt JamesShot that and its all goone
May 27 at 5:43pm · Like -
Cory EssonThe sell more 5.45 Matt
May 27 at 5:46pm · Like -
Darin TalbotI'm still sitting on 50ish K bought back when tins were 89.00 a pop.. oh halcyon days of cheap ammo
May 27 at 5:46pm · Like · 1 -
Matt JamesI know, but the cheap Russkie surplus pool of training ammo is dwindling. Thats what made it good for a plinker, trainer.
May 27 at 5:50pm · Like -
Arin F LousignontDarin, I'll give you 180/crate if you want to get rid of some of it.
May 27 at 5:57pm · Like -
Cory Esson5.45 is a legitimate fighting caliber even though it's not in the legendary m4 configuration. It's more the Indian not so much the arrow.
May 27 at 5:59pm · Like -
Arin F LousignontThere's a such thing as 545 AR Uppers.
May 27 at 6:00pm · Like -
Cory EssonThere's very few. So few that it's almost a moot point. And I've only ever seen 2 mags for them in my whole life. I've seen more MP7 mags than 5.45 AR mags
May 27 at 6:03pm · Edited · Like -
Arin F LousignontAlso I'll qualify that by saying I have zero experience with 545 uppers. Don't know if they are reliable/viable. Just seen them offered for sale.
May 27 at 6:04pm · Edited · Like -
Chris CliftonIt's a pain in the ass to get a 5.45 upper running but it can be done
May 27 at 6:06pm · Like · 1 -
Arin F LousignontChris what are this issues? Mags?
May 27 at 6:08pm · Like -
Cory EssonHeavy lacquered rounds. The lack of mags, the tapered case. The lack of interest in making them work. Take you pick.
May 27 at 6:12pm · Like · 1 -
Arin F LousignontI'll take the penis mightier for $545 Alex
May 27 at 6:19pm · Like · 1 -
Chris CliftonArin - mags were a bit of an issue but so was getting a half way decent trigger that would reliably work with surplus 5.45 rounds.
May 27 at 6:21pm · Like · 1 -
Roland DeschaintullBecause you're American..... silly people with plastic banana mags get shot in the face.
May 27 at 6:24pm · Unlike · 7 -
Darin TalbotHerr Old Crotchety hath spoketh, to the next topic for gnashing of keys ;^)
May 27 at 6:28pm · Like -
Cory EssonMagpul 40 rounder?
May 27 at 6:29pm · Like -
David TimmMags for 545 ARs are and have been the weak link. You can modify pmags or the new ASC mags are usually ok but lemons are common. Bolt is another issue that can be an issue usually due to firing pin protrusion. Some makers make a 545 dedicated longer firing pin where as other use 556 firing pin.
I worked with a manufacturer that was trying to get a big mag maker to make a dedicated poly 545 ar mag. When the import of surplus stopped that project lost movement.
Ammo is still available around my area for 20 cents a round. I like shooting my AK 74 for fun range drills. My personal preference is a quality AR.
May 27 at 6:30pm · Like · 1 -
Frank WoodsJohn Smith
May 27 at 6:33pm · Like -
Matt JamesI wouldnt mind an Arsenal AK47, or when and if they import civi editions of the the new issued AK.
May 27 at 7:15pm · Like · 1 -
Matt JamesI still dont know ehat makes it a better round then 45... lots of conjecture and bold claims with nothing concrete in the way of either of empirical data OR concrete logic. Its all hyperbole and rhetoric.
May 27 at 7:48pm · Like -
Matt JamesThere is a reason that say 300 WM is a better cartridge as far as external ballistics and terminal effect- faster and bigger/better bullet.
May 27 at 7:49pm · Like -
Kevin Boland16" battleship gun
May 27 at 7:56pm · Like · 1
