PFC Training and the PDC rifle

[hooahmedic]

PFC Training, if you haven't heard of them, provides outstanding training for close protection, all the way from individuals skills to team skills. I've attended their PSOC class and its outstanding.
They are now offering a complete weapon package that to me seems to be a good set up. However, I've never heard of a couple of the parts for their set up, like the flashlight.

I'm interested opinions and thoughts.

http://www.praestolor.com/

http://www.pfctraining.com/

 

[victran]

i've been following them for a number of years and have not found an opportunity to travel to Vegas to train with them yet. i really like their approach to their carbine setups and enjoy hearing their distaste for slings (a topic for another place and time). the PDC setup just makes sense. how everything is setup, it fits the bill entirely. having the RDS more to the rear (especially helps for cross dominant shooters like myself), the controversial placement of BUIS, a decent compensator, excellent trigger, and quality parts and furniture.

of course, i rather them go M Lok but eh (probably ditch the BAD lever too) lol nothing is ever perfect.

 

[JB3]

Victran- I have looked but can't find anything about why they don't run slings. Care to share with the class?

 

[victran]

Victran- I have looked but can't find anything about why they don't run slings. Care to share with the class?

their mentality revolves around strictly fighting with the gun and they believe that a sling is something to stow and use for carry. despite Hartman being a former Marine and LEO, he wouldnt recommend a sling because its a snag and "gun grab opportunity." along those lines from what ive read of student AARs on M4C and ARFCOM, like i said, i have yet to take a class with them, just follow their vids.

#datlimitedpen

heres a video of one their house runs and none of the cadre or students are using a sling and even ditches it to the deck when he ran dry during his transition.

 

[275RLTW]

I'm trying to be open minded here before I call it "range theatrics" but why, after engaging a target through a doorway, transition to the other hand with the rifle and then re-engage? If you are on target, then stay on target. It doesn't seem efficient and a waste of time, energy, and opportunity the way they are doing it. Again, I'm trying to be open minded and hope someone can provide a decent and TESTED explanation as I have not seen this used anywhere.

 

[victran]

I'm trying to be open minded here before I call it "range theatrics" but why, after engaging a target through a doorway, transition to the other hand with the rifle and then re-engage? If you are on target, then stay on target. It doesn't seem efficient and a waste of time, energy, and opportunity the way they are doing it. Again, I'm trying to be open minded and hope someone can provide a decent and TESTED explanation as I have not seen this used anywhere.

the technique is called "Limited Penetration CQB." i'd move the rest of the question to another section as it does not pertain to the original topic. since i'm a non mil or LE civvie, i would not be able to speak on their behalf, just providing you a basis of where to look.

 

[IEDmagnet]

I'm trying to be open minded here before I call it "range theatrics" but why, after engaging a target through a doorway, transition to the other hand with the rifle and then re-engage? If you are on target, then stay on target. It doesn't seem efficient and a waste of time, energy, and opportunity the way they are doing it. Again, I'm trying to be open minded and hope someone can provide a decent and TESTED explanation as I have not seen this used anywhere.

100%

I would also question why they are letting the bad guy maintain the advantage in that room. Take the passing shots and make the entry, dominate the room and go find work elsewhere.

 

[275RLTW]

the technique is called "Limited Penetration CQB." i'd move the rest of the question to another section as it does not pertain to the original topic. since i'm a non mil or LE civvie, i would not be able to speak on their behalf, just providing you a basis of where to look.

That is not "Limited Penetration CQB." Without getting too much off topic, Limited Penetration is not a commonly viable tactic, nor is it taught at any .mil or Fed LE school. Getting into that is another topic, I agree. You posted the video here and brought up tactics regarding the sling, it's fair game to request verification on very obvious issues presented in the video from a) someone who has actually been to their training and b) does this for a living as well. Additionally, the topic of the thread is "PFC Training & Rifle" and a recommendation of the training they provide. Again, fair game.

 

[victran]

That is not "Limited Penetration CQB." Without getting too much off topic, Limited Penetration is not a commonly viable tactic, nor is it taught at any .mil or Fed LE school. Getting into that is another topic, I agree. You posted the video here and brought up tactics regarding the sling, it's fair game to request verification on very obvious issues presented in the video from a) someone who has actually been to their training and b) does this for a living as well. Additionally, the topic of the thread is "PFC Training & Rifle" and a recommendation of the training they provide. Again, fair game.

fair enough, im not trying to step over toes or lanes here. im just as curious to their methods as much as you are since i havent been able to partake in one of their courses yet.

 

[Longeye]

their mentality revolves around strictly fighting with the gun and they believe that a sling is something to stow and use for carry. despite Hartman being a former Marine and LEO, he wouldnt recommend a sling because its a snag and "gun grab opportunity."


heres a video of one their house runs and none of the cadre or students are using a sling and even ditches it to the deck when he ran dry during his transition.

Not all Marines and cops are gunfighters... Sometimes there are reasons for being "former".

Context is important. I don't see any here. For field use, the importance of the sling may shift. For FISHing, it is pretty crucial.
The sling on a carbine is as the holster around a pistol. The sling is partly to prevent gun grabs. And is to keep your blaster attached if you are forced to transition. Why would you just ditch a long arm that can be quickly reloaded and reintroduced to the fight? Why risk breakage? That is straight up dumb

There was a time when gunfighting with a sling was a genuine PITA. That time has been past for nearly 20 years.

Between the old skool Wilderness 3 pt and the excellent VTAC and Vickers we have some great slings that work well with the modern manual of arms.

 

[hooahmedic]

Sorry guys, I have been pre-occupied and forgot all about this discussion.
I have been to a PFC Class for Close Protection. And its very solid. Hartman is an excellent instructor and a damn fine shooter.
I don't know what his quals are but its known he was a Marine, a former LEO and also worked for a fed agency of some sort When I asked him who he was with in Iraq, that question was answered, "with other folks". And that was it. I"m guessing by the way things were said and not said, it would be an OGA. That's just a cop's gut guess.

During the class, no rifles were used. Thus my question.