P&S ModCast 377 - Ergos and Other Fine Topics

[Matt Landfair]

Primary & Secondary ModCast

Brass Facts, Hop, Matt Landfair, and Chuck Pressburg discuss rifle ergos, methods, and other random topics

Audio version:

P&S ModCast 377 - Ergos and Other Fine Topics Part 1

Primary & Secondary ModCast Brass Facts, Hop, Matt Landfair, and Chuck Pressburg discuss rifle ergos, methods, and other random topics Episode sponsors: Big Tex Ordnance - https://www.bigtexordnance.com/ Lucky Gunner - https://www.luckygunner.com/ Overwatch Precision -...

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P&S ModCast 377 - Ergos and Other Fine Topics Part 2

Primary & Secondary ModCast Brass Facts, Hop, Matt Landfair, and Chuck Pressburg discuss rifle ergos, methods, and other random topics part 2. Episode sponsors: Big Tex Ordnance - https://www.bigtexordnance.com/ Lucky Gunner - https://www.luckygunner.com/ Overwatch Precision -...

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[Farmboy20]

During this mod cast the lpvo section I observed that both hop and brass facts just hated on lpvo I believe specifically the 1-10 vortex and a night force scope. While I agree with some of the points like the reticle is extremely fine in the vortex but i mean shoot it not a terrible optic tho in my opinion I’m quite found of it. What was everyone’s else’s take away?

 

[pointblank4445]

During this mod cast the lpvo section I observed that both hop and brass facts just hated on lpvo I believe specifically the 1-10 vortex and a night force scope. While I agree with some of the points like the reticle is extremely fine in the vortex but i mean shoot it not a terrible optic tho in my opinion I’m quite found of it. What was everyone’s else’s take away?

I finally hit that point (gotta take Hop and Brock in small doses). Chuck pretty much hit the nail on the head...most people don't know what they're missing in the Gen 3 1-10 until they step back to the 1-6HD and realize what they've lost...if one can grasp the nuances (if you can't run either, the differences are moot). Is it as terrible as some make it sound at 10x?...I don't think so, but I also don't feel it gains much if anything over some 8x's on the market...but it's a heavy-hitter for the street price.

Re: the newer 1-10, the glass nerds that either have an "in" with Vortex or payed the Euro/DD tax are already implying there's some differences in the smaller optic...whether they are critical will be up to the user.

The original NF reticle was BAD and the design change is a welcome. A lot of folks cried about the optical constraints, but it wasn't unusable.

Brock says something similar to what I've been saying for a long time, have said here, and LFer over the last decade (and I probably mentioned in our conversation) in that there's 2 approaches for the LPVO and where the emphasis is. However, I must disagree with his assertion that for most it's 1x most of the time, top end sometimes (as well as his implications that magnification equates to distance)...it's probably more 50/50. But far too many want to dwell on the bookends of 7y door-kicking capability or smashing targets beyond 500y...and ignoring the more likely envelope of 25-200y (or more likely 25-100y) both from a variety of practical/legal/training standpoints.

As a now 18-year LPVO end-user (who has repeatedly moved and come back) with much of that in the highly reactive LE space, I maintain the thoughtfully selected LPVO is still the most appropriate choice for "when you don't know what you need/will be doing".... I perfectly understand where in ill-suited LPVO is easy to dismiss, but that's just my take on the matter.

 

[Nate Osborne]

And towards that 25-100 or 200 area, I still think there is a space for a very compact and lightweight 1-4. Can we apply the same tech from the 1-8 or even 1-10 optics and make something very short, very light, and very good 1x performance with a reticle that is designed around that 2-300 max regular range (with perhaps some markings for further shots as needed).

 

[pointblank4445]

And towards that 25-100 or 200 area, I still think there is a space for a very compact and lightweight 1-4. Can we apply the same tech from the 1-8 or even 1-10 optics and make something very short, very light, and very good 1x performance with a reticle that is designed around that 2-300 max regular range (with perhaps some markings for further shots as needed).

I've said similar for a long time now, and put my money where my mouth is in still using 1-4's, 2nd FP optics, and plain duplex crosshair reticles (sometimes dated optics with all of these) that certain features aren't as critical as people think for practical, general purpose use.

Sadly, optic makers are busy pushing erector ratios and top end mag...which is fine, but I too would like to see some already discovered territory get modern refinement and updated features/tech. And while some of us understand what a (for example) 12oz quality 1-4x LPVO could mean, one is going to have a tough time convincing the consumer market with more internet time than trigger/glass time that it could be a valid option depending on intended use over say a 17.6oz NX8.

 

[pointblank4445]

@Nate Osborne,

10ish years ago, Nathan Hunt was on Snipershide when he had HuDisCo/Homewrecker shotguns and talked about making an ultra-light game-changer LPVO that was little more than an ACOG if memory serves. Spinel lenses and Titanium housing and all manner of fancy-sounding stuff.

Rifle Scopes - Scope market inside scoop...

As we know, the scope market is moving at a break neck pace, and there is a new player about the enter the arena. getting some inside CAD drawings of the new offering, the first which will be a lower power option

www.snipershide.com

Well as cool as all that sounds, this thing is the real deal. We've been working on it for a really long time now. Guess it's probably time to share a little more.
We wanted to do something different than the typical glass and aluminum. Not just to differentiate ourselves, but to provide real and practical user benefits. There are lots of scopes out there with great glass. We wanted that too but thought we'd head in a slightly different direction using the latest materials and building on the last few years spent in the defense industry and optoelectronics. Here goes...

We chose spinel because it's so hard. Harder than sapphire actually and has exceptional optical properties. It's widely known in the defense industry in "transparent armor" applications. It may not be the best choice for going bird watching, but it's really good nonetheless and it's the hardest transparent substance out there that can be practically ground into a lens. (Thought we might display them in a rock tumbler filled with granite media. No joke) No trademarks here; it's a real material. Lots of info can be googled up about it.

Titanium was chosen for its weight, strength, and limited temperature expansion rates.

Dual Reticles were chosen to address the usability at maximum and minimum power.

There will be a lot of the features people are used to; ccw knobs, 4 reticle choices, stops on the windage and elevation, locking diopter, etc.

And it'll be legitimately made in the US. 100%. Everything from the design to grinding glass to cutting metal to putting them together. This was really important to me.

I figured we wouldn't skimp if we were going to finally put our own name on something. Lots of lessons learned from our previous experiences.

Lots more info to come. I need to get busy and do a proper press release, but it's all still coming together. The above drawing has changed again already.

There will be two more versions coming after this one built to a similar spec, but with longer ranges in mind.

There are more than a few people here that had a lot of input early on. You know who you are. Thanks so much for your help.

Hardware is still a little ways out, but we're really excited about it.

Looking forward to hearing everyone's thoughts.

Best regards,

Nathan Hunt

And here you can see some familiar sentiments from me and my alternate handle from 10 years ago...quoting an even OLDER handle :

Rifle Scopes - Scope market inside scoop...

Reticles... All I can say is MSR, for me it's nearly the perfect reticle. If you don't want to pay the royalty of offering the MSR, then please offer something that is close to the layout of the basic format of the MSR or Leupolds TMR with large hash mark at every Mil, and a smaller hash mark...

www.snipershide.com