Magazines Unusually Hard to Seat in Tactical Reload, AR-15

[Gaz]

I have a year and a half old PSA rifle with a lower round count (750-1000).

My rifle was in for warranty maintenance about three months ago due to a front sight block pin falling out. I also had them inspect the barrel since I suspected it wasn't mounted properly (which was revealed to be the case). PSA put in a whole new barrel and gas system, all covered under warranty.
Additionally, I did do some airplane traveling recently in which I sent my rifle with me.

This last weekend I was practicing tactical reloads Now, I can't say for certain when this started since I haven't shot the gun since the warranty service, but when I attempt to insert a full magazine when the bolt is closed it is unusually difficult to get the magazine to lock into the magazine well. A forceful push to seat the magazine is insufficient unless it's an excessive push, abnormally so.

Now that you have the background and a discussion of the issue, does anyone have ideas about what is wrong, if anything, and if I can remedy the issue at home?


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[Longeye]

How many rounds do you have in the magazine? Sounds to me like you have 31 rounds aboard, which is easy to do with PMAGs and some of the other new design mags. Simple fix. Just down load to the correct number of rounds: 30.

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[Gaz]

How many rounds do you have in the magazine? Sounds to me like you have 31 rounds aboard, which is easy to do with PMAGs and some of the other new design mags. Simple fix. Just down load to the correct number of rounds: 30.

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Thank you for your response, however the magazine is loaded with the specified number of rounds, 30. I forgot to mention that I also downloaded to 28 and was unsuccessful in remedying the problem. Using P-Mags.


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[Longeye]

Does the magazine seat easily when the bolt is locked to the rear?

Does the bolt have any trouble stripping a round from a fully loaded magazine when it is released by pressing the bolt catch?

 

[Gaz]

Does the magazine seat easily when the bolt is locked to the rear?

Does the bolt have any trouble stripping a round from a fully loaded magazine when it is released by pressing the bolt catch?

The magazine seats when the bolt is open. The rifle has no problem stripping a round in the fashion you described.

An empty magazine seats as expected, this a different magazine from the one I'm having problems with. Now, I am realizing I should fill a different magazine and see if it has the same problem, and maybe test an empty mag of the one that isn't working? I only have the two magazines at my disposal at the moment.




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[Lane C]

Can you add a photo of the magazine that you are having problems with? Preferably a picture with a view of the fully loaded magazine from the top looking ad the bullets. And also another picture of the same magazine, empty, with eh same view from the top?

 

[Longeye]

Yes, that is a good plan. Eliminate the variables. It odd that this problem manifested itself after the warranty which shouldn't have effected this part of the carbine.

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[Gaz]

Can you add a photo of the magazine that you are having problems with? Preferably a picture with a view of the fully loaded magazine from the top looking ad the bullets. And also another picture of the same magazine, empty, with eh same view from the top?

Let me know if you want other perspectives.

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[Gaz]

Yes, that is a good plan. Eliminate the variables. It odd that this problem manifested itself after the warranty which shouldn't have effected this part of the carbine.

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I attempted seating the magazine as usual with 30, 20, and 10 rounds, then 0, 1, 2, and 3 rounds. The magazine takes an unusual amount of force to load for each case except 0, 1, and 2 rounds. I conducted the same process with a different P-Mag and yielded the same results.

Also out of curiosity I tried seating a loaded magazine and unloaded magazine in the magazine well with the bolt locked to rear. Nothing unusual to report there.

I realize a conclusion could be difficult due to the subjective nature of the "feel" of the force required to seat a magazine. However, with my time with the gun I would be inclined to be familiar with the ins-and-outs of it, including the feel of a proper reload.

 

[Lane C]

I attempted seating the magazine as usual with 30, 20, and 10 rounds, then 0, 1, 2, and 3 rounds. The magazine takes an unusual amount of force to load for each case except 0, 1, and 2 rounds. I conducted the same process with a different P-Mag and yielded the same results.

Also out of curiosity I tried seating a loaded magazine and unloaded magazine in the magazine well with the bolt locked to rear. Nothing unusual to report there.

I realize a conclusion could be difficult due to the subjective nature of the "feel" of the force required to seat a magazine. However, with my time with the gun I would be inclined to be familiar with the ins-and-outs of it, including the feel of a proper reload.

thx. heading out the door for the day. so i will get back to you in the evening.

 

[M80Ball]

Same thing happens with my Colt. With a fully loaded mag, the rounds push up against the BCG when it's inserted and it takes a bit more force to overcome. There's nothing resisting the insertion when you have a locked bolt or empty mag. You just have to get used to inserting the mag with more force. I wouldn't be concerned about it unless you have to take a hammer to the mag to get it to seat or something.

 

[Gaz]

Same thing happens with my Colt. With a fully loaded mag, the rounds push up against the BCG when it's inserted and it takes a bit more force to overcome. There's nothing resisting the insertion when you have a locked bolt or empty mag. You just have to get used to inserting the mag with more force. I wouldn't be concerned about it unless you have to take a hammer to the mag to get it to seat or something.

Don't get me wrong, I know this fact to be true, however categorically with reloads done with the bolt closed there is an excessive amount of force required to seat a full mag beyond what I have experienced with the same rifle before. It feels very much like hitting a wall with the mag.

Perhaps, however, this is something I haven't noticed much before and need to practice hitting that mag in very hard. I would need to try out someone else's rifle to compare, though, which would be difficult to find at the moment. Thus, I'd like to see whether we can problem solve whether it's possible that something is functionally wrong with the firearm or magazines.

 

[Lane C]

Gaz,

Thanks for the pics. That looks normal, i will explain. And bear in mind I am going to break it down a bit Barney style for the benefit of others that view this. Plus it is easier to explain verbally than for me to write it out. Bear with me.

On magazines for the M4/AR15 platform you will see the top of the follower as seen in the picture with a a raised portion either viewers left or viewers right. Bonus tip. If it is the raised black or green in a aluminum USGI magazine or the standard MagPul followers you will notice the Ridge/Rise on the right side. So that means that if the top round in visible as observed in the other photo on the right side you have an EVEN number of rounds in the magazine. The newer aluminum USGI have a tan follower that starts on the left side and so the load sequence will be in reverse with EVEN rounds being on the lookers left.

So based on what I see i would conclude that you have either 28 or 30 rounds in the MagPul magazine. IIRC Magpul designed the magazine to easily swallow up 30 rounds on ammo. If you can take your index finger and depress the the top round and the follower just slightly into the body of the magazine (maybe half the length of the fingernail on your finger) Than you should have a properly loaded magazine.

If you cannot get the top round to depress into the body of the magazine away from or underneath the feed lips I would surmise that the magazine may have more than 30 rounds in the magazine body, possibly 32 rounds in this circumstance. I know, I know, but check to see if this is the case, even taking the time to count all of the rounds loaded into the magazine.

I have seen many ambitious LE and Mil load 31 rounds into a 30 round magazine. 32 would be a bonus.

If there are only 30 rounds in the magazine body and you feel that tension on the feed lips and no way to depress the top round into the magazine body, then i would check to see if you have an obstruction, debris, gravel, etc. inside the magazine body that is preventing the proper compression of the spring and follower.

Another possibility, thinking out loud, not from experience is that is a non-manufacturer or non-stock baseplate has been installed it may be the culprit. So check to see if it is stock or not.

Most likely this is a magazine loading issue. But, as listed above. Compare another magazine in the same lower/upper to see if the same result occurs. If it does. That you upper BCG may be suspect.

Of course this is all based on pictures and how you would define it and how i would define it to try and troubleshoot. The best answer would be to have the actual products in hand. So take what ever assistance you get offered with a bit of difficulty due to not actually having the AR15 and magazines in hand.

Lastly. Not speaking for MagPul. But the have great customer service. And though i believe from using their product for years that it would be a minimal occurnace for a product defect, it is always possible and I would reach out to them after you have ruled out of there possibilities.

Let us know what has worked and any more additional pertinent info that you feel is necessary.
Cheers.

 

[275RLTW]

While forum rules states that only a gunsmith should be answering this type of question, I feel this answer is within my lane (not being a gunsmith):

1) Take it to a gunsmith. Rifle and magazine. You'll get definitive answers there that you cant from people looking at pictures.
2) Stop buying PSA. They are not recommended for several reasons and one of those is out of spec parts.
3) Do spend some more time behind the rifle, or any rifle for that matter. If you don't know what normal feels like than how can you know what wrong feels like?

That may not be what you wanted to hear but probably the best way to guarantee that the issue is resolved.

 

[Gaz]

Thank you for your time and responses gentlemen. It seems we have concluded that if there is a problem it is not easily discernible from pictures and descriptions on the forum. That's good progress since now I know I won't be wasting time seeing a gunsmith. If there are any further conclusions from a visit I will share those here.

 

[Cropduster]

Gaz,
I bet your problem is that the second round in your p-mag is moving out of place. The tip of the second (from the top) round is popping up. When the BCG attempts to press the rounds down, the second round resists moving down, and instead the top two rounds attempt to push outward toward the magazine walls. I have found it is nearly impossible to seat it without some jar disturbing this askewed round. This is repeatable in all of my gen 3 p-mags. I no longer buy gen 3. I have not noticed this with any older gens or gi mags since I began paying attention to which mags it occurs in, however, i dont typically carry my gen 1 or gen 2 anymore so my test pool is limited to mostly gen 3 and GIs now.

Additionally, it never causes any abnormal function upon insertion with BCG locked back. None of our FIs have ever heard of this, and i have shown them the issue and it is new to them. Old or new mags, it does not make a diffetence. Try to pull up on the tip of the second round with a tool. I bet it pops up easily. However, if you tried it on a GI mag, i bet it would not move so easily. Let me know what you find.