Crunching a bit on LPVO's, Razor vs. VCOG

GraeLine

Newbie
Network Support I
#1
I've got a decent amount of time behind US Optics, Vortex, Nightforce and Trijicon.

My question here is thoughts on the VCOG? I crunched the numbers on weight with the new Gen II-E and as follows

Razor HD Gen II-E - 21.5 oz. + Geissele SOPMOD 30mm Mount 7.2 oz. = 28.7 oz.
Trijicon VCOG (no battery or mount per their website) - 23.2 oz. + Geissele VCOG Mount 3.1 oz. + AA battery (roughly) 1 oz. = 27.3 oz.

So on paper the Trijicon will be about the same weight as the Razor with;

Advantages
- No need for cat tail
- AA battery
- Likely more durable (I don't have first hand knowledge so anyone here who does would be welcome)
- Easier (smoother) magnification adjustment
- US made (honestly quality > build location but if it's US made and comparable great)

Disadvantages
-Razor has a better reticle options for my usage (competition/"driveway gun")

Pricing-wise not a big concern, is the eyebox on the Vortex really that much better from someone who has time on both? I have time on Accupowers and Accupoints and fiddling with a VCOG but no real time behind it.
 
#2
I do not have a considerable, amount of time behind a VCOG (>1000 rounds) but I do have a good amount of rounds behind a Razor and other LPVOs. I would caution you away from going FFP, especially on a 1-6. I have never found myself using the reticle for measuring at anything less than the maxiumum power. Also, the field of view and eyebox with all the FFP LPVOs (The 1-8 Accupower and NX8 included) I have tried has paled in comparison to even the Razor, much less the Kahles/Swaro twins which are definitely in the VCOG price range. In my experience the 1x of an LPVO is the most crucial factor as this is where you will spend most of your time.

For the Razor specifically, even the E model is 4.5 oz heavier that where it should be (17 oz for the K16i or NX8) and the magnification adjustment is ridiculously stiff. Other than that it is a rock solid optic that gives you 80% of the performance of a Kahles for 60% of the price and is pretty hard to go wrong with.
 
#5
You can probably take "likely more durable" out of the advantages. Durability of an optic has more to do with the quality of the internals (teeny, tiny springs and screws) than with the housing. I've used about everybody's CS in the last 10 years...S&B, NF, Leupold, Vortex, Kahles, Trijicon. There is no rhyme nor reason to when and how a scope will go down. Really, you should probably put emphasis on warranty in that respect...and I would give the nod to Vortex in that respect.

While the VCOG doesn't require you to level the optic (which is kinda nice), you are limited on your heights. A traditional optic will give you the freedom to choose what you want (or if you have to clear accessories or mate up with clip-ons).
 

Sunshine_Shooter

Regular Member
Network Support I
#7
the field of view and eyebox with all the FFP LPVOs (The 1-8 Accupower and NX8 included) I have tried has paled in comparison to even the Razor, much less the Kahles/Swaro twins which are definitely in the VCOG price range. In my experience the 1x of an LPVO is the most crucial factor as this is where you will spend most of your time.
Is this eyebox issue for all FFP scopes, or just LPVOs? Also, wouldn't opening your support side eye render the lesser field of view (at 1x) a moot point?
 
#9
Is this eyebox issue for all FFP scopes, or just LPVOs? Also, wouldn't opening your support side eye render the lesser field of view (at 1x) a moot point?
All scopes will obviously have an eye box but in my experience, the best eye boxes have all been SFP scopes with FFP ones lagging noticeably behind. As Rick stated above, if you aren't in the eye box you have no aiming reference so having a generous eye box is obviously nothing but a positive.

For your second question, FOV when referring to LPVOs isn't really about how much you can actually see with only your dominant eye open, as I don't know of anyone that I consider a remotely competent shooter that doesn't shoot with both eyes open save for a few exceptions with only one eye. FOV for me has a very strong correlation with how much the optic disappears or conversely how much it feels like you are looking down a tube. With scopes like Razor or the Kahles/Swaro twins the optic really starts to disappear and it becomes almost like looking at a normal picture with a reticle superimposed on your vision.

When comparing this sensation to things like the Accupower 1-8, the VCOG, or even the new NX8 I still get a lot more of a tube sensations when shooting. Is this the end of the world? No, I can run drill up close with a 4x ACOG if it really came down to it but if we are looking for the best I still believe it lies in the SFP domain for 5.56 carbines. Once we get to 1-8, 1-10, 1-12 scopes on something like a large frame AR-10 in more of a marksman role then I believe FFP scopes will come into their own and I believe that the new ATACR is the prototype of that use case with a Horus type reticle coupled with a 16" 6.5 Creedmoor or .260 Rem.
 

GraeLine

Newbie
Network Support I
#10
Thanks for the feedback and insight.

This is why I freaking love this community, you all save me money! If any of you are in the Phoenix area hit me up for a beer, I owe you each at least one.