Are night sights worth it?

[Chuck Haggard]

I spent decades on night shift, and I have a shit-ton of time doing SWAT work, and in teaching low-light classes. In that time I learned that tritium sights can have a distinct advantage is some lighting conditions. That being the case, and the only downside being cost, I pay the extra to have the capability.

 

[AT Armor]

I spent decades on night shift, and I have a shit-ton of time doing SWAT work, and in teaching low-light classes. In that time I learned that tritium sights can have a distinct advantage is some lighting conditions. That being the case, and the only downside being cost, I pay the extra to have the capability.

Chuck, with regard to the advantage you stated, do you find your tritium equipped students (or yourself) to be faster, more accurate, or both than those with "standard" sights? (all other things being equal).

 

[Chuck Haggard]

In general, yes. I have one friend who made a hit on a real bad guy one night specifically because he had tritium sights on his duty gun. Personally I have noted a distinct advantage in shot placement in FoF when I am using a Sim gun with night sights, throwing that in because one can get a LOT of reps in while doing FoF

 

[ScottPM09]

Chuck, can you elaborate on you or your buddy's experience as far as the conditions (lighting, indoors/outdoors/use of a light/etc) of having to utilize the night sights? Not doubting, just interested since I have begun to change my views on night sights over the years while having a WML.

Apart from the *What if* situation of my WML fails after I have ID'd a threat, I have found that my WML pretty much washes or blacks out the use of tritium in the sights. If there is enough ambient light to ID a bad guy without the use of a flashlight (hand held/WML), the tritium is probably not being utilized anyway.

 

[tact]

In general, yes. I have one friend who made a hit on a real bad guy one night specifically because he had tritium sights on his duty gun. Personally I have noted a distinct advantage in shot placement in FoF when I am using a Sim gun with night sights, throwing that in because one can get a LOT of reps in while doing FoF

Interested to know what FOF class. I have taken FOF classes and sights were never used as it was all point shooting.

 

[ptrlcop]

Not necessarily a class as much as in house training but I have observed a significant relationship between using sights/disciplined shooting and actually hitting anything.

I know when I first started doing force on force, I wasn't seeing the sights (or getting very good hits. Once I put the effort into forcing myself to use them, my outcomes improved...

 

[Matt Landfair]

Interested to know what FOF class. I have taken FOF classes and sights were never used as it was all point shooting.

Go through a DARC course with just a pistol....

 

[tact]

Go through a DARC course with just a pistol....

Ok....thanks

 

[tact]

Not necessarily a class as much as in house training but I have observed a significant relationship between using sights/disciplined shooting and actually hitting anything.

I know when I first started doing force on force, I wasn't seeing the sights (or getting very good hits. Once I put the effort into forcing myself to use them, my outcomes improved...

Curious then. So are you against point shooting? What distances are you talking about in the above reply?

 

[Dan Easterday]

DISCLAIMER: Low speed, fatass drag thoughts:

WRT point shooting, I think point shooting release upon tons of neurological programming and reps to understand the relationship between your gun and your body, and relying on those reps. I can see the benefits, but I think in the end, it all comes down to making more accurate hits with aimed fire.

I have played the violin for over 30 years now, and I can play in many different positions (lazy-fiddle- positions, precise-classical- positions), and not have to look at what my fingers are doing, but when it comes to real critical passages, I invariably look at what my fingers are doing in order to verify that I am in position to cleanly hit notes. It's like using my sights instead of natural point of aim (which is all neurologically programmed through correct reps) while shooting.

I make the above analogy because it is the best way I can make the connection between repetitive neurological programmed reflexive playing (shooting), and conscious, monitored playing (shooting).

 

[ptrlcop]

Curious then. So are you against point shooting? What distances are you talking about in the above reply?

Yes, at any distance beyond contact I want some visual verification of where I am shooting. I have timed shots into the berm with my only intention to break the shot as soon as the gun came to center line(not even trying to hit anything) and never got much under .8. For me to hit an IDPA -0 from 7yds is little more than a quarter second slower using sights... What am I gaining point shooting?

Last time I did FoF we were practicing CI/UC rescue where the friendly was often taken hostage or otherwise entangled with the mope. Sights were 100% not optional. Some shots, even at room distance required nothing less than a hard front sight focus and a great trigger press while taking incoming rounds. If you think these things can't or won't happen under stress it is for no other reason than you haven't trained to do them.

 

[Chuck Haggard]

Short term until I can get a longer post going, Todd and I have talked about this at length, this was his take, with a couple of pretty good pics;
http://pistol-training.com/archives/7668

 

[Dan_Kemp]

I have been doing some experimenting with different setups on some borrowed pistols with an eye toward getting my next setup right.

My primary pistol for around the house or heavy CCW is a 1911 with a tritium front and a plain black 10-8 U-notch rear. That pistol came with a Novak style rear on it, but I didn't care for the three dot arrangement. It is also a railed pistol and the only handgun I have that will take a WML.

The next 1911 in the rack (still not complete) is a 10-8 gold bead front with plain black 10-8 U-notch rear.

The plain black S&W revolver sights on my 60-15 aren't quite as fast for me because I keep looking for that long ramped front with no "focal point" on it like I get with that tritium dot or gold bead. Unfortunately there are not a lot of aftermarket front sight options there and I haven't gone hunting for custom fabrication yet.

I have also messed with a fiberoptic front/plain back rear and a fiberoptic three-dot arrangement that I didn't care for, mainly because it felt fragile in addition to being as visually jumbled as the Novaks had been.

The next pistol will more than likely be a Glock 19, but with the intention of being a high capacity carry piece for when I think my 3" J frame is inadequate and I don't feel like hauling the 1911. Tentatively based on prior experience, I am leaning toward the 10-8s or at least a 10-8 rear. Even I am not silly enough to leave stock sights on a Glock.

 

[Gaz]

Now I'm curious, there has been a solid number of people reporting to use a fiber optic front sight. Has anyone ever experienced one of these breaking or falling out (assuming that they were melted in sturdily).

 

[Chuck Haggard]

Fiber optic rods can be damaged by some solvents. I've found that if one is careful with cleaning that it goes a long way towards not having issues.

At worst a rod that falls out leaves one with a plain black front sight, which is hardly a catastrophic failure.

 

[MrMurphy]

Im issued 3dot, prefer a tritium front only, will use either.

 

[nate89]

I was listening to the new Modcast series with Kyle Defoor. They get into an interesting discussion regarding fiber vs. tritium. I'll see if I can find the exact segment and post a link.

 

[nate89]

check this one out, although the whole episode is filled with a load of good info

 

[SCSU74]

Do opinions change when adding a RDS? I'm currently setting up a Sig 320 with an rm06 with the intention of using it as a duty gun once they are approved. I currently use Trij HD's and like the blacked out rears during daylight with the bright front dot. I was thinking about plain black rear with a trit front for back up irons with the RDS. I like the idea of having trit in the front in the event the RDS is down for whatever reason. Thoughts?

 

[TCB]

I wish someone would make a serrated front sight with a F/O rod set up high with a tritium tube directly under it that would light it up enough for it to be useful in low light.
Currently I run HD's on my duty & training guns, serrated F/O front with serrated black rears on my competition guns and tritium front (wish it was serrated) with serrated blacked out rear on my bedside gun.
Basically I've come to find a serrated front and back with a visible dot on the front and nothing on the back to be the best for me.