Michael Novack
Newbie
Member Paul Taylor posed an interesting question on the FB side: "This is more of an academic exercise than anything else: Are there any non-AR pattern rifles that are good-to-go? (Training/serious use.)
Recent press and unfounded obsession with the platform had me wondering what else is out there and is still worth considering as a legitimate contender."
Mods Noah Tramposh and Lee Gullett suggested I post my reply over here as well:
I gave this some thought and I think the answer revolves around what we each consider good-to-go. One thing that this thread has made obvious to me is that the modern AR-15 has come to rule the day on a truly grand scale and everything else is a comparative compromise in some way, despite a few designs perhaps having some specific superior attributes. So I think there are plenty of rifles that are "good-to-go" if your standards are rolled back by decades, but you are choosing to be handicapped.
Many of the rifles and carbines noted so far have been serious go-to guns for decades and still are for shooters around the world as evidenced by the Mini-14s seen in the recent French terror attacks. Yet most of us would not be caught dead choosing it for a fight because our standards have been raised so much in the past 25 years, and we have a choice. AUGs served serious units like the U.S. Customs Service, Tucson, Phoenix, and Dan Diego SWAT teams for decades. However, spotty parts availability, cost, limited upgradability, and arguably inferior usability compared to the modern AR platform and matching TTPs put them in the grave and turned them into boutique guns. I've owned one for 25 years and like them more than most, but it's still at the back of the safe now.
Can we still use an AUG as effectively as 25 years ago? Certainly, just like a Scout Rifle, HK91, or Marlin 336. On the spot they should all do the job if you know how to run it and it doesn't break, but an AR will arguably do everything more reliably, ergonomically, and sustainably with cheap and available parts and magazines, and with more enhancement options and ongoing development even after more than 50 years. The others didn't lose capability; the bar was simply raised.
The increasingly high volume of training we now expect a combative rifle to take has steadily shrunk what I consider truly viable alternative options. The thread's question is worth thinking about. For me the answer comes from another question: How rational do I want to be about this decision? For me the answer is no, I don't believe there is any reason I would intentionally choose a rifle other than an AR-15 at this point (other than local restrictions if I lived somewhere I was not allowed to own one).
Recent press and unfounded obsession with the platform had me wondering what else is out there and is still worth considering as a legitimate contender."
Mods Noah Tramposh and Lee Gullett suggested I post my reply over here as well:
I gave this some thought and I think the answer revolves around what we each consider good-to-go. One thing that this thread has made obvious to me is that the modern AR-15 has come to rule the day on a truly grand scale and everything else is a comparative compromise in some way, despite a few designs perhaps having some specific superior attributes. So I think there are plenty of rifles that are "good-to-go" if your standards are rolled back by decades, but you are choosing to be handicapped.
Many of the rifles and carbines noted so far have been serious go-to guns for decades and still are for shooters around the world as evidenced by the Mini-14s seen in the recent French terror attacks. Yet most of us would not be caught dead choosing it for a fight because our standards have been raised so much in the past 25 years, and we have a choice. AUGs served serious units like the U.S. Customs Service, Tucson, Phoenix, and Dan Diego SWAT teams for decades. However, spotty parts availability, cost, limited upgradability, and arguably inferior usability compared to the modern AR platform and matching TTPs put them in the grave and turned them into boutique guns. I've owned one for 25 years and like them more than most, but it's still at the back of the safe now.
Can we still use an AUG as effectively as 25 years ago? Certainly, just like a Scout Rifle, HK91, or Marlin 336. On the spot they should all do the job if you know how to run it and it doesn't break, but an AR will arguably do everything more reliably, ergonomically, and sustainably with cheap and available parts and magazines, and with more enhancement options and ongoing development even after more than 50 years. The others didn't lose capability; the bar was simply raised.
The increasingly high volume of training we now expect a combative rifle to take has steadily shrunk what I consider truly viable alternative options. The thread's question is worth thinking about. For me the answer comes from another question: How rational do I want to be about this decision? For me the answer is no, I don't believe there is any reason I would intentionally choose a rifle other than an AR-15 at this point (other than local restrictions if I lived somewhere I was not allowed to own one).
