30 Super Carry

[Matt Landfair]

To continue the theme that I just like guns - I find the idea of 30 Super Carry interesting. It is a rimless cartridge with performance roughly between 380acp and 9mm. If the end product meets or exceeds the standards Federal is establishing for it, I'd have a use for it. I'd carry it.

A couple more rounds in the magazine, a little less recoil, meets FBI ballistic standards - I don't see an issue. I like options and having them. I've had my eye on Beretta Cheetahs because 380 with capacity greater than 10 sounds fun.

Looking at duty caliber pistol performance, rounds are just poking holes. If you are gaining positives with this caliber and maintaining the standard - how is it a bad idea? I think of the arguments for moving from 40 to 9mm with police depts.

If you don't feel 380 is adequate but 9mm might be too much - this has the potential of also being a good choice for people with strength and dexterity issues due to age or injury. I thought the M&P EZ series was kinda neat. My wife would be more likely to shoot 30SC over 9mm based on my understanding. That right there is all the reason I need.

I've read comments of people complaining ammo manufacturers can't keep up with current needs and a new niche caliber just adds an additional complication to supply. I understand that concern. I haven't picked up a 327 Fed mag due to not having a supply of ammo nearby. I also was considering getting some form of 5.7 purely for fun but didn't due to ammo scarcity.

I'm tired of everything being negative and edgy for the sake of doing so. It's more productive and a challenge to analyze stuff to figure out how it applies to me and even better when I determine- "yeah, I have a use for that".

 

[pointblank4445]

Been on the winning and losing sides of new round failures and successes.

There seems to be a struggle for people who don't "get" the role of the micro compact. That's on them.

The 30SC obviously ads 2x more rounds at least, if it can indeed:
- be easier to shoot/less recoil than 9mm (though I'm not sure given some of the pressure numbers being thrown around)
- keep that minimum 12"/max 18" penetration threshold to not give up anything to current defensive calibers
- be as reliable as 9mm if not more so in the intended platforms

I think there is merit to this round given the popularity of the micro/sub-compacts at this point.

Having a less prolific cartridge can have an advantage as we have seen in the past 2 years. And in the context of the micro sized pistols there won't be a terrible need to stack this stuff tens of thousands of rounds deep for a 10k round a year training cycle.

While I have no intent on being first to the table with a 30SC, I will be watching it closely.

 

[Smith]

As a newb ("Better judged by 9 than carried by 45, am I right?!"), I'm still confused by how bullets even kill. I get that holes are bad in you, but most of the rest seems pretty random. Seems like you're basically putting as many holes as possible as quickly as possible in the A zone, and each one you roll for "threat stops." All these crazy stories out there about the cop putting tons of rounds in that bank robber, including "eventually fatal" hits, but turned out that "eventually" is a really long time if he's shooting back.

But nobody carries .22 (or do they?) so eventually, too small a hole is too small?

Another thought, hope it's not too negative, sorry Matt.

If there's too much "innovation" too fast, you end up in a situation where everybody's constantly catching up. I don't know how long it took departments to switch from 40 to 9, but there's new guns, new mags, new ammo sourcing and contracts, probably a tiny bit of training and adjustment.. if you time it "just right," people will never have the right combination of equipment & training because just when they were about to get settled, everything begins to change again.

So I'd rather see a really big jump in innovation but wait a little longer. Maybe this type of "caliber anxiety" goes away when you have a bit more experience, but getting into it it's just a massive mental overload how many handgun calibers there even are. I understand that it's even more confusing for rifles.

 

[Matt Landfair]

As a newb ("Better judged by 9 than carried by 45, am I right?!"), I'm still confused by how bullets even kill. I get that holes are bad in you, but most of the rest seems pretty random. Seems like you're basically putting as many holes as possible as quickly as possible in the A zone, and each one you roll for "threat stops." All these crazy stories out there about the cop putting tons of rounds in that bank robber, including "eventually fatal" hits, but turned out that "eventually" is a really long time if he's shooting back.

But nobody carries .22 (or do they?) so eventually, too small a hole is too small?

Another thought, hope it's not too negative, sorry Matt.

If there's too much "innovation" too fast, you end up in a situation where everybody's constantly catching up. I don't know how long it took departments to switch from 40 to 9, but there's new guns, new mags, new ammo sourcing and contracts, probably a tiny bit of training and adjustment.. if you time it "just right," people will never have the right combination of equipment & training because just when they were about to get settled, everything begins to change again.

So I'd rather see a really big jump in innovation but wait a little longer. Maybe this type of "caliber anxiety" goes away when you have a bit more experience, but getting into it it's just a massive mental overload how many handgun calibers there even are. I understand that it's even more confusing for rifles.

Duty caliber pistol just poke holes. The goal is put holes in areas that will facilitate fast bleedout or central nervous system disruption. That's it.

 

[Greg "Sully" Sullivan]

I conversed with a few of my local ballistic Guru's about it. The consensus is that it is on par with the 32 mag.


CY6
Greg Sullivan "Sully"
SLR15 Rifles
DefensiveEdge.com
(763) 712-0123

 

[shoobe01]

My hope is that we get some clever designers to make REALLY thin guns out of this. My model has long been the Star model S. If you have never seen one, keep an eye open on used shelves, they come up.

It is a .380 or .32 swinging link (sorta 1911ish) but TINY. Without going to measure, like 2/3rd the width of any competing gun, esp of the era. Because locked breech, so doesn't need the slide mass of delayed blowback. And that's (originally) 1940s metallurgy (and they had no duability issues).

Clearly you can get away with straight blowback in .380/.32 but they made a choice. 30SC is a bit too much for a reasonable sized pistol to be straight blowback, so I hope that even if "by accident" we see engineers only building the gun they need to support the energy and pressure involved, and don't have a mandate to only re-chamber existing small 9s for a few more rounds. That would be... fine, but new guns around this could be really something.

The extreme would be a minimum-width single stack in .30SC. My smallest daily thing is a Kahr because very flat, and not much is noticably thinner. A similar gun in a more-than-.380 caliber but the same thickness as say a CW380 could very, very interesting, fill a slot that simply doesn't exist today.

 

[DavidMS]

Its intriguing but want to see what independant testers find when firing it into ballistic gel. I sense it could be successful if it lives up to its performance claims and the amunition isn't too expensive.

 

[therealthedanimal]

I've shot a little over 1,000 rounds through my S&W Shield Plus in 30SC. So far everything has been out of pocket for my testing purposes. Over the past several months I wrote a series of articles on my findings and thoughts regarding my experiences, including some ballistics gel testing, comparison against a comparable pistol in 9x19 on some standardized drills. I know 2023/24 is a little past the 30SC prime, but better late than never I suppose!

Below I'll post the links to some of the articles on the subject. Hopefully they help folks out.

30 Super Carry Ballistics Gel Testing [2023] ⋆ Primer Peak

We conduct ballistics gel testing on 30 Super Carry using the S&W Shield Plus and common conceal carry or duty ammunition. Read more here.

www.primerpeak.com

A Primer on 30 Super Carry | Gel Testing, Drills, and More ⋆ Primer Peak

Check out the details on 30 Super Carry here. We cover ballistics gel, drills, reliability, and more topic on the new caliber.

www.primerpeak.com

Reasons to Support 30 Super Carry ⋆ Primer Peak

Why would someone choose 30 Super Carry? That's what we're answering here. Check out the details on 30SC in this piece.

www.primerpeak.com

 

[Matt Landfair]

An added benefit of 30SC and the rebirth the 32 revolvers - they both can use the same projectiles. The research that helped develop new 30SC rounds translate to more possibilities for 32 revolvers.

 

[TheBigDog65]

An added benefit of 30SC and the rebirth the 32 revolvers - they both can use the same projectiles. The research that helped develop new 30SC rounds translate to more possibilities for 32 revolvers.

The 100 grain HST and FMJ in .30 SC are both specced to 1250 fps, and the Super Carry is SAAMI max pressure at 50,000 psi. .327 Federal, by comparison runs 100 grain bullets at 1400 fps or better on pressure of 45,000 psi.... and we know how much fun it is to shoot. ( ) .32 H&R will touch 1200 fps with a 100 grain bullet from a fixed breech test barrel at 21,000. On that basis your point seems well taken and maybe Federal might want to consider the HST bullet in the H&R loading. The question will become how fast can it be driven out of a nominal 2 inch J frame barrel, and would that be enough to get it to behave like a JHP and not FMJ.

 

[therealthedanimal]

The 100 grain HST and FMJ in .30 SC are both specced to 1250 fps, and the Super Carry is SAAMI max pressure at 50,000 psi. .327 Federal, by comparison runs 100 grain bullets at 1400 fps or better on pressure of 45,000 psi.... and we know how much fun it is to shoot. ( ) .32 H&R will touch 1200 fps with a 100 grain bullet from a fixed breech test barrel at 21,000. On that basis your point seems well taken and maybe Federal might want to consider the HST bullet in the H&R loading. The question will become how fast can it be driven out of a nominal 2 inch J frame barrel, and would that be enough to get it to behave like a JHP and not FMJ.

I think you'll have issues with expansion. My results from the Shield Plus were worse than the 1911 and Shield EZ testing that others (including Federal, CCI, and Hornady) have published. They all tested with 4" barrels, and the loss in velocity seems to hurt expansion.

 

[Smith&Steward]

As a newb ("Better judged by 9 than carried by 45, am I right?!"), I'm still confused by how bullets even kill. I get that holes are bad in you, but most of the rest seems pretty random. Seems like you're basically putting as many holes as possible as quickly as possible in the A zone, and each one you roll for "threat stops." All these crazy stories out there about the cop putting tons of rounds in that bank robber, including "eventually fatal" hits, but turned out that "eventually" is a really long time if he's shooting back.

But nobody carries .22 (or do they?) so eventually, too small a hole is too small?

Another thought, hope it's not too negative, sorry Matt.

If there's too much "innovation" too fast, you end up in a situation where everybody's constantly catching up. I don't know how long it took departments to switch from 40 to 9, but there's new guns, new mags, new ammo sourcing and contracts, probably a tiny bit of training and adjustment.. if you time it "just right," people will never have the right combination of equipment & training because just when they were about to get settled, everything begins to change again.

So I'd rather see a really big jump in innovation but wait a little longer. Maybe this type of "caliber anxiety" goes away when you have a bit more experience, but getting into it it's just a massive mental overload how many handgun calibers there even are. I understand that it's even more confusing for rifles.

I carry a .22 LCR most days, all day with a rare exception. Handgun bullets, doesn't matter which whiz bang cartridge, all just crunch tissue. There is no hydro-static shock until something like 2200 fps is achieved, for that a rifle is needed.
There was a point when I carried both a G20 and G26, with two mags for each. I wanted all the shock and foot-pounds of energy I could carry, even if it meant destroying my body( lower back, hips and knees) and simply covering what I wanted to conceal. There is a big difference between covered and concealed but that's another topic.
If the 30 Super Carry cartridge can translate into a lighter gun with added capacity in possibly an easier to carry and manipulate platform. Then I think it's worth trying and exploring more. I don't really think that the diameter of the bullet should be a big concern.
This is where I'm at now, given my experience and learning, coupled with what I've learned from those with more experience. P&S is a great place to learn.