I don't consider myself an expert on anything, but I will give my $.02 worth. I am viewing it from an Armorer / Gunsmith level. If you haven't had a good Armorer Course on each weapon system you use, then I would suggest seeking one out. Knowing how a gun runs, how to give it a thorough break down and cleaning, troubleshoot and repair it, is very important, especially when lives depend upon it as it has to run 100% in all field conditions.
When teaching Armorer Courses, this discussion usually comes up of what are my thoughts on Ultrasonic cleaners.
First, I will say that they work. Second, I will say that if you use them wrong, you are possibly creating issues. Third, I will say that if you use them correctly, then they can be a great asset.
I see many Law Enforcement Agencies that get them, tend to treat them as a dishwasher, where they just want to throw the gun in the cleaning tank, walk away, come back 20-minutes later and pull the gun out, and out the gun back into service. This is NOT GOOD, and you are creating issues, which could be major if the gun doesn't work when it needs to (Reliability), and you can also create problems of longevity of parts. Think of it like this, if you take dirty dishes from the dinner table and throw them into the dishwasher, run it, then upon removing the supposed clean dishes from the washer, how many of them are actually clean, and how many of them still have food remnants stuck to them?
If you put a complete firearm, or sub assemblies into the ultrasonic tank, then it will clean, but how do you get the fouling out of the assembled parts. An example would be if you field stripped a Glock into an assembled frame, assembled slide, barrel, action spring, and inserted them into the ultrasonic tank, and ran it through a cleaning cycle. The cleaning cycle would remove the fouling, but how do you get the fouling and cleaning solvent out of the assembled parts (ie: Slide assembly that has the firing pin assembly, extractor assembly)? Then you also have liquid solvent inside the firing pin and extractor assembly, where fluids are not supposed to be as it is meant to run dry.
For a shotgun like a Remington 870, Mossberg 500/590, Benelli, Winchester etc, if you drop the entire shotgun into the tank, it will clean, but how to do you get the crud out of the gun. If you pull the barrel off, it would clean the barrel. But it you through the assembled receiver, it would clean, but how do you get the crud out of the bolt assembly, trigger group assembly, or stock assembly.
If you were to drop an AR15 upper receiver assembly (Upper receiver, barrel, gas tube, gas block/front sight base, barrel nut assembly, front & rear sight assemblies, forward assist, ejection port cover assembly, into the ultrasonic tank and run it through a cleaning cycle. It would most likely loosen the fouling. But how do you get the fouling and solvent out of the gas tube, gas block/front sight base, gas port, barrel, underneath the barrel on the threads, etc? The same thing is true on other guns like Piston AR15's, M14/M1A, M1 Garands, Mini-14s, Remington 1100/1187, etc.
Then once the ultrasonic cleaning cycle and solvent as cleaned everything, all the lubricant has been removed from the pores in the metal, leaving it bone dry, and that lubricant is there to protect it from corrosion (rust), and reduce friction. The usual answer to this is to simply drop the gun or assemblies into a lube tank, which by dunking everything into a lube tank it allows the lube to go back inside the gun and lubricate everything that needs it. In reality the lube tank will allow all parts that lube can flow into and onto get lubed, but what about sub assemblies that are threaded like the barrel nut threads, sight parts (threads, pins, springs, ball bearings, detents, etc. Also you are then introducing lube into areas that are meant to run dry (Gas port, gas tube, gas block/front sight base).
The lube bath on a handgun like a Glock, would allow lube to get into areas like the firing pin assembly, extractor assembly, where it is designed to run bone dry. If you get lube into the internal parts of a slide assembly on guns like Glocks, it will cause issues.
Now for the best way (IMHO) on how to use an ultrasonic cleaner, is to disassemble the entire firearm into small parts parts, like a Glock breaks down into 30-something parts depending upon model and generation, and then if you want to ultrasonic clean it, you will get all the parts clean. Then inspect all the parts as you reassemble, making sure all fouling is removed, inspect for erosion and stress (replace parts when necessary), then reassemble the parts dry that are meant to run dry, and lube the parts that need to be lubed.
If ultrasonic cleaning an gas gun like that AR15 system (Gas impingement or piston) then you can disassemble the lower receiver into parts. This would mean removing the trigger system, bolt catch, magazine catch, front pivot pin, rear takedown pin, stock assembly, grip and safety assembly, then clean the lower receiver. Once clean, then reassemble the parts, making sure to lube all the springs, detents, detent tracks of the safety selector and takedown/pivot pins, threads of the grip screw and stock assembly, buffer retaining detent spring & detent, etc. I would not recommend or suggest cleaning the upper receiver assembly of an AR15 in a ultrasonic tank, as you are introducing solvents & lubes into the gas system, where you cannot get the loosened fouling out, and you should not put lube into, as it will cause problems.
II know an Officer who treated his Agency's ultrasonic tank as a dishwasher, and dropped an assembled M16 rifle, complete with Leupold CQT optic on top, into an ultrasonic tank, and left it there overnight. It did get things clean, left everying bone dry, destroyed the optic, and all the assembly parts in the gun still had the loosened fouling stuck under them, and all hidden parts (threads, springs, detents, etc) were bone dry and had no lube to reduce friction or protect from corrosion. This Officer was treating the ultrasonic tank as a dishwasher.
IMHO the best way to clean an AR15 upper receiver is to scrub the receiver with a tooth brush and solvent, then rinse or wipe the loosened fouling out. Clean the inside of the barrel, which includes the chamber, bore, and lug recess where the bolt locks into battery. Cleaning the chamber and lug recess is done with a chamber brush and solvent. Cleaning a bore should be done using a bore guide, bore brush, cleaning rod, solvent, jag with patches, and I like to use denatured alcohol as a rinse to remove the cleaning solvent. Then when necessary to remove copper fouling, I recommend using a copper solvent with a jag, cleaning patches, and follow up with denatured alcohol to remove any copper solvent. Imho, NEVER PUT ANYTHING INTO THE GAS TUBE, this includes solvents, pipe cleaners, cotton swabs, etc, as there is about 14,000-PSI gas pressure that goes through the gas tube, which basically keeps it as self cleaning, and any introduction of solvents/lube into this area is going to cause issues, and it makes no sense to be squirting solvent or using pipe cleaners to push things from the back end of the gas tube towards the gas block/front sight base and gas port (In the opposite direction as gas flows). In Armorer Courses we show several examples of plugged gas systems, and when lives depend upon that firearm running 100% it cannot be plugged, so don't do things that would cause it to get plugged.
For cleaning shotguns, break the down into a barrel, bolt assembly, trigger group removed from the receiver), and you can scrub and clean these easily enough by hand. Making sure that you use a chamber brush and bore brush on the barrel (Yes a shotgun has a chamber, and they make chamber brushes for them). Remove the magazine spring and follower, then scrub the inside of the magazine tube using a magazine tube brush (yes they make a magazine tube brush). If a bolt assembly can be field stripped (like a Benelli, Beretta, Franchi), do so, or in bolts like the Remington 870, Mossberg 500/590, then it is open and loose enough to scrub and flush fouling out, but at Armorer Level it should be broken down into small parts and cleaned/inspected then lubed where needed. Trigger groups can be scubbed and flushed at user level, where at Armorer Level they should be disassembled where necessary, cleaned & inspected, then lubed and reassembled. Receiver can be scrubbed with a tooth brush and solvent. Don't submerge stocks into a solvent tank, as you don't want wood soaking up solvents, and you don't want hollow areas inside wood or synthetic stocks filling up with fluids.
Do we have ultrasonic and solvent tanks in our workshop, the answer is yes. Do we use them, yes. But how we use them is to clean small parts. We do not use them to clean assembled parts, and we do not ever use them inside of guns where there are gas systems. I much prefer to scrub things by hand, especially looking at it from an Armorer or Gunsmith level of being able to remove fouling, inspect parts, and properly lube with the proper lubricants where it needs it (Keeping in mind that we lubricant for several different reasons, to protect from corrosion (rust), to reduce friction, and we also lube where we have different types of metals touching each other where we need to protect from electrolysis (Shotgun choke tubes, AR15 barrel nuts, etc).
CY6
Greg Sullivan "Sully"
SLR15 Rifles
TheDefensiveEdge.com
(763) 712-0123
When teaching Armorer Courses, this discussion usually comes up of what are my thoughts on Ultrasonic cleaners.
First, I will say that they work. Second, I will say that if you use them wrong, you are possibly creating issues. Third, I will say that if you use them correctly, then they can be a great asset.
I see many Law Enforcement Agencies that get them, tend to treat them as a dishwasher, where they just want to throw the gun in the cleaning tank, walk away, come back 20-minutes later and pull the gun out, and out the gun back into service. This is NOT GOOD, and you are creating issues, which could be major if the gun doesn't work when it needs to (Reliability), and you can also create problems of longevity of parts. Think of it like this, if you take dirty dishes from the dinner table and throw them into the dishwasher, run it, then upon removing the supposed clean dishes from the washer, how many of them are actually clean, and how many of them still have food remnants stuck to them?
If you put a complete firearm, or sub assemblies into the ultrasonic tank, then it will clean, but how do you get the fouling out of the assembled parts. An example would be if you field stripped a Glock into an assembled frame, assembled slide, barrel, action spring, and inserted them into the ultrasonic tank, and ran it through a cleaning cycle. The cleaning cycle would remove the fouling, but how do you get the fouling and cleaning solvent out of the assembled parts (ie: Slide assembly that has the firing pin assembly, extractor assembly)? Then you also have liquid solvent inside the firing pin and extractor assembly, where fluids are not supposed to be as it is meant to run dry.
For a shotgun like a Remington 870, Mossberg 500/590, Benelli, Winchester etc, if you drop the entire shotgun into the tank, it will clean, but how to do you get the crud out of the gun. If you pull the barrel off, it would clean the barrel. But it you through the assembled receiver, it would clean, but how do you get the crud out of the bolt assembly, trigger group assembly, or stock assembly.
If you were to drop an AR15 upper receiver assembly (Upper receiver, barrel, gas tube, gas block/front sight base, barrel nut assembly, front & rear sight assemblies, forward assist, ejection port cover assembly, into the ultrasonic tank and run it through a cleaning cycle. It would most likely loosen the fouling. But how do you get the fouling and solvent out of the gas tube, gas block/front sight base, gas port, barrel, underneath the barrel on the threads, etc? The same thing is true on other guns like Piston AR15's, M14/M1A, M1 Garands, Mini-14s, Remington 1100/1187, etc.
Then once the ultrasonic cleaning cycle and solvent as cleaned everything, all the lubricant has been removed from the pores in the metal, leaving it bone dry, and that lubricant is there to protect it from corrosion (rust), and reduce friction. The usual answer to this is to simply drop the gun or assemblies into a lube tank, which by dunking everything into a lube tank it allows the lube to go back inside the gun and lubricate everything that needs it. In reality the lube tank will allow all parts that lube can flow into and onto get lubed, but what about sub assemblies that are threaded like the barrel nut threads, sight parts (threads, pins, springs, ball bearings, detents, etc. Also you are then introducing lube into areas that are meant to run dry (Gas port, gas tube, gas block/front sight base).
The lube bath on a handgun like a Glock, would allow lube to get into areas like the firing pin assembly, extractor assembly, where it is designed to run bone dry. If you get lube into the internal parts of a slide assembly on guns like Glocks, it will cause issues.
Now for the best way (IMHO) on how to use an ultrasonic cleaner, is to disassemble the entire firearm into small parts parts, like a Glock breaks down into 30-something parts depending upon model and generation, and then if you want to ultrasonic clean it, you will get all the parts clean. Then inspect all the parts as you reassemble, making sure all fouling is removed, inspect for erosion and stress (replace parts when necessary), then reassemble the parts dry that are meant to run dry, and lube the parts that need to be lubed.
If ultrasonic cleaning an gas gun like that AR15 system (Gas impingement or piston) then you can disassemble the lower receiver into parts. This would mean removing the trigger system, bolt catch, magazine catch, front pivot pin, rear takedown pin, stock assembly, grip and safety assembly, then clean the lower receiver. Once clean, then reassemble the parts, making sure to lube all the springs, detents, detent tracks of the safety selector and takedown/pivot pins, threads of the grip screw and stock assembly, buffer retaining detent spring & detent, etc. I would not recommend or suggest cleaning the upper receiver assembly of an AR15 in a ultrasonic tank, as you are introducing solvents & lubes into the gas system, where you cannot get the loosened fouling out, and you should not put lube into, as it will cause problems.
II know an Officer who treated his Agency's ultrasonic tank as a dishwasher, and dropped an assembled M16 rifle, complete with Leupold CQT optic on top, into an ultrasonic tank, and left it there overnight. It did get things clean, left everying bone dry, destroyed the optic, and all the assembly parts in the gun still had the loosened fouling stuck under them, and all hidden parts (threads, springs, detents, etc) were bone dry and had no lube to reduce friction or protect from corrosion. This Officer was treating the ultrasonic tank as a dishwasher.
IMHO the best way to clean an AR15 upper receiver is to scrub the receiver with a tooth brush and solvent, then rinse or wipe the loosened fouling out. Clean the inside of the barrel, which includes the chamber, bore, and lug recess where the bolt locks into battery. Cleaning the chamber and lug recess is done with a chamber brush and solvent. Cleaning a bore should be done using a bore guide, bore brush, cleaning rod, solvent, jag with patches, and I like to use denatured alcohol as a rinse to remove the cleaning solvent. Then when necessary to remove copper fouling, I recommend using a copper solvent with a jag, cleaning patches, and follow up with denatured alcohol to remove any copper solvent. Imho, NEVER PUT ANYTHING INTO THE GAS TUBE, this includes solvents, pipe cleaners, cotton swabs, etc, as there is about 14,000-PSI gas pressure that goes through the gas tube, which basically keeps it as self cleaning, and any introduction of solvents/lube into this area is going to cause issues, and it makes no sense to be squirting solvent or using pipe cleaners to push things from the back end of the gas tube towards the gas block/front sight base and gas port (In the opposite direction as gas flows). In Armorer Courses we show several examples of plugged gas systems, and when lives depend upon that firearm running 100% it cannot be plugged, so don't do things that would cause it to get plugged.
For cleaning shotguns, break the down into a barrel, bolt assembly, trigger group removed from the receiver), and you can scrub and clean these easily enough by hand. Making sure that you use a chamber brush and bore brush on the barrel (Yes a shotgun has a chamber, and they make chamber brushes for them). Remove the magazine spring and follower, then scrub the inside of the magazine tube using a magazine tube brush (yes they make a magazine tube brush). If a bolt assembly can be field stripped (like a Benelli, Beretta, Franchi), do so, or in bolts like the Remington 870, Mossberg 500/590, then it is open and loose enough to scrub and flush fouling out, but at Armorer Level it should be broken down into small parts and cleaned/inspected then lubed where needed. Trigger groups can be scubbed and flushed at user level, where at Armorer Level they should be disassembled where necessary, cleaned & inspected, then lubed and reassembled. Receiver can be scrubbed with a tooth brush and solvent. Don't submerge stocks into a solvent tank, as you don't want wood soaking up solvents, and you don't want hollow areas inside wood or synthetic stocks filling up with fluids.
Do we have ultrasonic and solvent tanks in our workshop, the answer is yes. Do we use them, yes. But how we use them is to clean small parts. We do not use them to clean assembled parts, and we do not ever use them inside of guns where there are gas systems. I much prefer to scrub things by hand, especially looking at it from an Armorer or Gunsmith level of being able to remove fouling, inspect parts, and properly lube with the proper lubricants where it needs it (Keeping in mind that we lubricant for several different reasons, to protect from corrosion (rust), to reduce friction, and we also lube where we have different types of metals touching each other where we need to protect from electrolysis (Shotgun choke tubes, AR15 barrel nuts, etc).
CY6
Greg Sullivan "Sully"
SLR15 Rifles
TheDefensiveEdge.com
(763) 712-0123
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