Tourniquet Carry option for duty/war belt.

Ephraim R.

Ephraim R.

Newbie
As I posted in the other thread, I don't think we are talking true use TQs that are breaking. Ive seen training TQs break, but that's just that. How many times had that windlass been torqued down? I have no idea. The point is, that Im not using that TQ to save a life. Exposure is something to talk about, but your TQs need to be inspected and replaced like every other piece of kit.
 

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Bronson

Bronson

Fury
I agree that CAT Failure data is misleading / skewed on multiple points.

1) Fake CAT's being issued.

This was and still remains a huge epidemic where fake CAT TQ's are being fielded, mostly due to not buying direct from established / authorized distributors.

2) CAT's being carried exposed to the elements for prolonged periods of time.

UV exposure, dust and debris, mud and blood will all deteriorate the efficacy of a CAT windlass and Velcro.

3) CAT's being used in training still carried in combat.

New TQ's aren't issued, training TQ's and combat TQ's aren't properly identified and differentiated.


Reference the SOFT-T, I honestly consider them obsolete when compared to the product improvements made on the SOFT-TW. I still have a few, but that's solely for training purposes for Units / Departments that still issue and use the SOFT-T.
 
AresGear_Jake

AresGear_Jake

Stiffer Is Better
Vendor
Ephraim R. said:
As I posted in the other thread, I don't think we are talking true use TQs that are breaking. Ive seen training TQs break, but that's just that. How many times had that windlass been torqued down? I have no idea. The point is, that Im not using that TQ to save a life. Exposure is something to talk about, but your TQs need to be inspected and replaced like every other piece of kit.
Click to expand...

The three I broke in training were new, just out of plastic, never used before. Is it possible the medics were giving me fake ones? Sure, but that doesn't change the fact that those're what we had. If there are enough fake CATs out there that even the US Army is issuing them at mob stations, then TO THE USER there's no difference between real and fake...until it breaks during application.


- Jake
 
Bronson

Bronson

Fury
I'll disagree there.

There is a difference, and folks should be able to determine real from fake. Inspection is something that is fundamental and should be practiced at all levels, from initial fielding to PCC/PCI's and post-mission inspections to DIV/BDE/BN/Company/PLT/Squad/Fireteam levels.

That being said - I've seen some serious UNSAT practices in use in the Army, to include outgoing Units turn in the TQ's they carried exposed all year to incoming Units based on a "TQ Shortage" and the incoming Unit using said TQ's.

Does anyone know if there is a reference page (.pdf) of various iterations of TQ's and changes made to each?
 
Max D

Max D

Corvus Training Group
When I'm on the ambulance I carry a CAT folded up in the calf pocket of my pants (5.11 EMS pants) with the red tongue sticking out. When I'm in uniform I carry it in one of my shoulder pockets with the tongue hidden under the flap for the sake of uniformity.
 
armyscoutman25

armyscoutman25

Amateur
With some vocal requests from myself and a Sergeant my department now issues the Uniform Medical Kit from TacMed Solutions. My current set-up is a SOFFT-W, Quik Clot, HALO Chest Seal, and a pair of Trauma Shears. Adds a little bit of bulk to the front of the uniform shirt but is nothing noticeable at unless your used to not wearing it but its easy to get used to. I currently run the kit on my vest on top of a Paraclete Speed Plate and Safariland vest. Makes me look like I work my chest a lot more then I already do. I also carry an Eleven 10 CAT holder on my duty belt which was there prior to being issued the Uniform Medical Kit but now It falls under the "two is one, one is none" matra.
http://www.tacmedsolutions.com/product/uniformed-medical-kit/
 
Rootbeer

Rootbeer

Amateur
I would have to voice my "pro" CAT biased. I have broken a CAT tourniquet, but I have also had problems with the original SOFT-T when it came to securing, using the set crew and the clamp; That was a horrible design. Most people improperly apply and use the CAT and therefore do not wish to use it. When it comes to dragging someone with a tourniquet that is against the ground, the SOFT-T's or SOFT-TW's metal bits and pieces are not going to do anything for the nylon strap design, same as the CAT. Enough abrasive force will weaken it. If the tourniquet is in place, properly applied, it would take quite a bit for that tourniquet to come loose, CAT or SOFT-T/W.

@armyscoutman25 I am assuming when you say "Quik Clot" you are referring to combat gauze? I hope you aren't running around with quik clot on your chest.

Here is .pdf for the differences and spots for fakes. The file is too large but this is the link :
@Bronson

http://www.coalitiontacticalmedicine.org/wp-content/uploads/file/Combat Application Tourniquet (GEN III vs E-CAT) smallerfile.pdf
 
Tango Mike

Tango Mike

Newbie
I have seen the plastic windlasses break in the older versions, but none in the passed couple of years. OP, I would seriously consider switching that TQ holder for something that can enclose it. I have seen catastrophic failures (in training mostly, only once when it mattered) of windlass, velcro, and nylon with TQs that have been exposed to the elements for prolonged periods of time.

I use CATs mostly because that is what has been supplied, and I also have extensive experience with them. I keep TQs stored in enclosed pouches or kits, single-routed as it is faster for me to either go through the second route after looping over an arm, or undo completely for an extremity that can't/shouldn't be moved.
 
Tropleo

Tropleo

Member
For patrol-CAT in an 1110 rigid holder on duty belt for upper extremity and a SOFTT-W in cargo pocket for lower extremity

SWAT- CAT in a D-27 pouch high centerline body and a SOFTT-W im cargo pocket

Been working well in training, haven't needed it yet in the real world (hope I never need to)
 
ROMPER

ROMPER

Amateur
Great info guys. Was just tasked with putting together recommendations for this for my agency. Was leaning to the 1110 plastic pouch for belt mounted TQ. Is there anyone making a plastic/kydex pouch for the CAT that covers it completely. Not sure I can get the agency to buy off on soft pouch for duty belt.
 
Bourneshooter

Bourneshooter

Blue Line Sheepdog
voodoo_man said:
Already have too much stuff on my rig. Policy says you have to have it on you, doesn't say how or where.
Click to expand...

TQ's should be readily accessible and clearly accessible according to all the training I have on them.

TQ goes centerline for me to get it with either hand and for any other officer who needs to use it on me to see it quickly.

Just going with what I've received in training and conversation with medics.
 
voodoo_man

voodoo_man

Established
Bourneshooter said:
TQ's should be readily accessible and clearly accessible according to all the training I have on them.

TQ goes centerline for me to get it with either hand and for any other officer who needs to use it on me to see it quickly.

Just going with what I've received in training and conversation with medics.
Click to expand...

I agree, I have several with me, and one on me at all times for personal use. I can reach the TQ with either hand by pulling up my shirt or going in between the buttons. I've done it several times already (not for me, but for others) and its not difficult.

https://www.tacmedsolutions.com/product/uniformed-medical-kit/

That's the setup I have, connects my soft panels together, but was designed for center line use - I don't like the way it looks with short sleeves.
 
FourNinerZero

FourNinerZero

Amateur
I use a CTOMS TQ pouch on my belt, immediately right of the buckle. I carry a SOF-TW, for 2 reasons. Its what we issue and train with, and Ive broken a CAT on a real casualty.

Fool me once....
 
S

Simko

Newbie
Another thing to be carful about on the duty belt is to make sure you can reach it with both hands. I have seen officers put them at the 4-5 o'clock after there gun and baton. When they go to get it with there left arm its more of a dance then I would be comfortable with.

I like the OPs idea generally officers have there tazers closer to the 12 o'clock.
 
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