Introducing: Project Nemesis - P320 Roland Special

[rudukai13]

Alright, had a chance to spend some time with this after work and have some additional thoughts to share. First off, it's fairly subjective but I do much prefer how the Springer magwell feels in my hand over the prior ANVL magwell. The geometry is much more natural and it does a very good job of forcing my hand higher on the grip of the gun;



The magwell also fits the shape of the grip module much better, and Springer sands the polymer of the grip's funnel so that the transition between the magwell and the polymer grip is much smoother;



The Springer magwell is if anything slightly more compact than the ANVL magwell, and conceals just as well in the T1C Agis as did the ANVL. For a size comparison, here's the Compact grip with Springer magwell compared to the X-Series grip with X-Series magwell;



I'll have to get to the range and do some livefire to know for certain, but doing dryfire/practice draws at home I may honestly prefer the Compact grip with this magwell over the larger X-Series grip; I like being able to apply additional leverage with my stronghand pinky finger directly to the magwell as opposed to the pinky of my support hand resting on the magwell, as is the case with the X-Series grip setup.



It does start to look a bit comical with the 27-round mag hanging out the bottom...

 

[rudukai13]

Range time this evening, I'm sure I'll have more to report after that!

 

[rudukai13]

Small update of orbital interest to this topic before I head to the range, Sig sent an email this morning stating the various M17 models are now shipping. This includes the Commemorative limited-edition, standard Civilian with and without thumb safety, and the Bravo model which is the Civilian w/ thumb safety in all black;

One interesting point to mention is that all of the M17 models will come with "...the same optic cut as specified by the MHS contract," meaning they will be ready for the Deltapoint Pro - The X-Series P320s are all cut for the Romeo1 optic, which is substantially similar to the DPP with a slightly smaller overall footprint

 

[rudukai13]

Back from the range with some rather surprising results to report. Shot another 300 rounds, which brings the system over the 2,500 total round mark. Shot a mix of the WWB 124gr NATO and Sig 124gr standard pressure FMJ. As always, no malfunctions to report. Testing was done by keeping as many variables as constant as possible - Shoot a couple magazines through the Compact grip module, then switch the comped top end and X300U over to the X-Carry grip module for a couple magazines, then back;

- The Springer magwell stayed rock solid right where it was supposed to be, as expected.

- Surprisingly, this initial testing would seem to indicate I can control the gun better with the Compact grip module. Something about the geometry of the Springer magwell and how my strong hand locks in place between the magwell and beavertail makes the gun not move at all once I've acquired my firing grip. With the fullsize X-Carry grip, I would occasionally have to adjust my grip between shots - I never once had to alter my grip on the Compact module.

- I control the recoil of the gun better with the Springer magwell as well. I believe this is a result of being able to directly apply leverage to the magwell with the pinky finger of my strong hand, as opposed to the X-Carry grip where the pinky of my support hand rests on the magwell and can't apply the same amount/type of immobilizing torque to the gun. To qualify this statement - with the X-Carry grip and compensated top end, the dot jumps up under recoil, disappears out of the window for a very brief moment, before settling back into place on the target. With the Compact grip+Springer magwell, the dot still jumps a bit due to recoil - but it never leaves the window of the optic before settling back on the target, which allows me to track it much better between shots.

- I can reach the magazine release on the Compact grip module without breaking my grip on the gun. With the X-Carry module, I have to twist the gun a bit in my hand in order to reliably release the magazine, which then requires re-adjusting back to my solid shooting grip after a magazine change.

Given these observations, and given the ability to very easily conceal the gun with the Compact grip module (even with the Springer magwell), I may decide to leave the gun set up as the "daywalking vampire"; compensated top end, Surefire X300U, Compact grip module, Springer magwell. If I can operate the gun and manage recoil better, AND the setup is easily concealed, I'm not sure it makes much sense to keep using the X-Carry grip module at this point. I'll of course be doing further testing over the next couple weeks to confirm this suspicion.

On a side note, with tonight's range trip done I've now burned through the initial 1,000 rounds of WWB 124gr NATO I purchased. Time for another bulk order...

 

[rudukai13]

After a bit of additional dryfire, practice draws, and practice drills at home comparing the differences between the Compact grip module w/ Springer magwell and the X-Carry grip, I am confident enough in my preference for the Compact grip module that I have sold off the X-Carry module.

Something about the combination of the Compact grip and the ESP magwell just works right with my hands. I'm able to control and operate the pistol better, and it feels vastly more ergonomic to me. Not to mention the benefit of making the whole gun concealable, which wouldn't have ever been possible with the larger X-Carry grip.

For me personally, the Compact grip with the magwell is the way to go for this pistol

 

[Nate Osborne]

Nice to hear about the progress. If you need the 124 nato, Palmetto has is for 8.99 a box and free shipping if you buy a case. I just picked a case up, so it being palmetto I should have it in about 2-3 weeks.

 

[Nate Osborne]

I was also wondering if you could do me a favor. I have been wanting to comp my 229, but it's going to be much easier getting a hold of the factory 13.1 LH barrel as opposed to a 1/2X28. Springer makes a micro comp for the 320 in metric thread, and I'm thinking about giving that a try. Could you possibly take a few measurements on the slide/comp to see if it will fit on my 229 and still go through holsters?

I'm thinking i'll need the measurements of
-width of comp on the bottom
-width of comp on top
-how high on the comp it starts to angle in

Hopefully that makes sense. If I know that I can compare it to the 229 slide. If it'll fit I'll pick up a factory threaded barrel and the springer comp and give it a try.

 

[rudukai13]

I was also wondering if you could do me a favor. I have been wanting to comp my 229, but it's going to be much easier getting a hold of the factory 13.1 LH barrel as opposed to a 1/2X28. Springer makes a micro comp for the 320 in metric thread, and I'm thinking about giving that a try. Could you possibly take a few measurements on the slide/comp to see if it will fit on my 229 and still go through holsters?

I'm thinking i'll need the measurements of
-width of comp on the bottom
-width of comp on top
-how high on the comp it starts to angle in

Hopefully that makes sense. If I know that I can compare it to the 229 slide. If it'll fit I'll pick up a factory threaded barrel and the springer comp and give it a try.

When I was first planning this project and was thinking I would base it on a P229 I had a similar thought, to use Springer's P320 comp. I reached out to them at that time to ask if it would work - They replied fairly definitively that they had tried it and it does not allow the P229 slide to cycle properly, nor will it pass-through a standard P229 holster.

For the Sig classic lines (including the P229), however, several people have determined that a Silencerco 1/2x28 threaded barrel plus the TBRC comp for the M&P works perfectly and actually seems to match the profile of the slide quite well;



(Photo from Wisemenofgotham)

 

[Nate Osborne]

Oh ok, thanks for the info! I've been watching for the TBRC comps to come back in stock, but it's been weeks and no sign that they will be available anytime soon. They posted on their website that they had some machine issues, and who knows how long that is going to take to get back online and running again.

 

[Nate Osborne]

And I have seen that picture on your thread on brianenos, I'm wanting to build something similar.

 

[rudukai13]

Happy to help!

 

[rudukai13]

Nate, thanks for your tip on the WWB through Palmetto - Just put an order in for 1,100 more rounds

 

[Nate Osborne]

I did the same thing, just under $200 and 100 rounds over a case.

 

[rudukai13]

I realized today I'm still (im)patiently waiting on the steel shroud kit for the Romeo1 from Optics Planet...Updated expected shipping date now says two weeks out - We'll see how accurate that ends up being

 

[user12358]

A buddy and I took his mom out to the range recently and she really liked the weight of the P320, or lack there of, when compared to the P226 and P229s that we were running. This is primarily going to be a bedside/ranch open carry gun, she does not intend to CCW this gun.

We have acquired a P320 Carry Threaded and are getting it milled for a type 2 RM06 with blacked out irons. She had an extra Omega 9K so she is just going to dedicate that can to this build and wants to do her own grip work after messing around with stippling before so we got her three extra carry modules. An XH30 to interface with a QLS'd MasterFire is on the way along with some factory 21 rounders to round out the package.

She did have two things that she noted about the P320 that I have been looking to address. First, are there any larger slide catch levers that are more sized like a P22X? She has no issues with riding P22X slide catches but didn't like how small the P320 one was. Finally, she noted that the trigger isn't quite as crisp as the Gray Guns actions that we have been shooting on for a while. I have tempered her expectations but does anyone have any experience with the Gray Guns or Apex offerings? Also is there anyway to shorten the reset with action kits or action work by a reputable smith?

 

[rudukai13]

A buddy and I took his mom out to the range recently and she really liked the weight of the P320, or lack there of, when compared to the P226 and P229s that we were running. This is primarily going to be a bedside/ranch open carry gun, she does not intend to CCW this gun.

We have acquired a P320 Carry Threaded and are getting it milled for a type 2 RM06 with blacked out irons. She had an extra Omega 9K so she is just going to dedicate that can to this build and wants to do her own grip work after messing around with stippling before so we got her three extra carry modules. An XH30 to interface with a QLS'd MasterFire is on the way along with some factory 21 rounders to round out the package.

She did have two things that she noted about the P320 that I have been looking to address. First, are there any larger slide catch levers that are more sized like a P22X? She has no issues with riding P22X slide catches but didn't like how small the P320 one was. Finally, she noted that the trigger isn't quite as crisp as the Gray Guns actions that we have been shooting on for a while. I have tempered her expectations but does anyone have any experience with the Gray Guns or Apex offerings? Also is there anyway to shorten the reset with action kits or action work by a reputable smith?

I believe they have relatively standardized the slide catch levers across the various models (now referred to as the "gen 2" slide lock, which is intentionally lower profile). The X-Five model, however, is (as far as I know) the only model available with a larger extended lever. It will be difficult to find one but keep your eye out for it. My suggestion would be to head over to the BrianEnos forums and see if anyone is willing to sell/trade the slide catch from their X-Five FCU.

As far as triggers, you have a few different options. For a crisper/lighter trigger, you will want the Gray Guns Competition trigger kit. It includes a worked-over sear assembly and different springs that lightens the pull weight to about four pounds, makes the break crisper, and reduces pre-travel and over-travel;

https://grayguns.com/product/grayguns-p320-competition-trigger-kit/

If you just want to reduce pre-travel and over-travel without substantially changing the pull weight, you'll want to look at the Apex Action Enhancement or Forward Set trigger kits;

https://store.apextactical.com/WebDirect/Products/Category?categoryId=53

My suggestion here would again be to check out the Sig subforum over at BEnos.com, there are a lot of shooters there that have much more experience than myself with various trigger kits and trigger action work.

You could also reach out to Alma Cole, who I believe is a member here somewhere (he was featured on a Modcast panel at some point). He shoots nothing but P320s in competition and is (if I recall correctly) sponsored by Gray Guns

 

[rudukai13]

Another option to get ahold of an X-Five slide catch would be to call Sig's Pro Shop directly and ask if they have any. That's usually the best way to get parts that aren't generally stocked as individual items for sale

 

[Ryan St.Jean]

Small update of orbital interest to this topic before I head to the range, Sig sent an email this morning stating the various M17 models are now shipping. This includes the Commemorative limited-edition, standard Civilian with and without thumb safety, and the Bravo model which is the Civilian w/ thumb safety in all black;

One interesting point to mention is that all of the M17 models will come with "...the same optic cut as specified by the MHS contract," meaning they will be ready for the Deltapoint Pro - The X-Series P320s are all cut for the Romeo1 optic, which is substantially similar to the DPP with a slightly smaller overall footprint

I am going to wait to see how the availability of parts goes but an M17 clone appeals to me a lot.

 

[rudukai13]

Had some time off today and spent a bit reflecting on this project and where to go from here. When I first purchased this pistol, my goal was to build the most capable defensive handgun platform utilizing modern components and practices. In this, the compensated Compact grip module format, I believe I've accomplished that goal.

This is the most accurate, softest shooting, most ergonomic, most broadly capable handgun I have ever owned, all while being comfortably concealable under even the lightest of shirts. The gun feels like it was crafted to fit my hands specifically. Using a combination of the 15+2 round magazine and a 17+6 round spare mag, I'm easily able to comfortably carry 40 rounds in total with me on a daily basis, concealed. I will be on the lookout for other parts and components to try out as the aftermarket support for this platform continues to grow, but as far as the basic equation is concerned I don't think I can get much better than this configuration.

So what's left to do? Build an identical redundant pistol as a backup and shoot the hell out of both of them, of course. I can hear my bank account screaming already...

 

[rudukai13]

Man Sig's really milking this M17 thing for all they can;

I mean don't get me wrong, I love the P320 (quite clearly), but someone's awful proud of their FDE and coyote tan shit...