Winchester PDX1 Buck/Slug Combo gimmicks...Is there any redeeming feature?

[pointblank4445]

I'm not a hater or a complete novice, but I certainly don't run as deep into the shotgun game as some of y'all do.

Recently, this got brought up to me for my opinion:

S12PDX1 Defender Shotshell Ammo | Winchester Ammunition

The S12PDX1 Defender shotshell ammo features a black oxide high-base head and three pellets of Grex buffered 00 plated buckshot.

winchester.com

Experience leads me to believe this is pure gimmick with no redeeming factors. Primarily because:
- It loses the benefits of a slug due to the 3 pellets becoming errant and making this unsuitable for range...this first and foremost puts it out of the running for me. 1/2 the number of wound channels or less compared to a good buckshot round.

- While this is a guess, the pattern, accuracy, and/or velocity may have to suffer for all or some of these projectiles as we have learned that small things like loading (#pellets, type of buffer/cup, etc) seems to matter significantly.


Other than its probably more terminal that birdshot, any of you scatter-gunners got anything to say on its behalf before it gets the thumbs-down and dismissal as gimmicky bullshit?

 

[Cgarcia]

Won't touch it. Truball slugs and low recoil flitecontrol for me.

 

[pointblank4445]

Won't touch it. Truball slugs and low recoil flitecontrol for me.

Thanks for saying why and adding discussion

 

[Cgarcia]

Tried to edit, no dice.
You summed it up pretty well, increased liability with decreased performance/accuracy. I cannot see any situation where this load would be beneficial and I will do my best to not post when I am half asleep.

 

[Barry B]

Agree. Gimmick. Run quality slugs, or FED Flight Control - THAT YOU HAVE PATTERNED - in every gun you will run it in. I pattered both of my shotguns with the slugs/00 I run, at 5, 12, 25 yards.

 

[Rob Hart]

Gimmick. I say that as someone that fell for the gimmick. Instead of the best of both worlds, you in fact end up with the worst of both worlds.

 

[Kwachen]

What really threw me about the PDX load is that I had 2 pellets that were within 3-5 inches of the slug out to 7 yards, but then the remaining pellet was never closer than 8 inches- and often off-silhouette, even at 7 yards.
I find it to have a couple of really helpful use cases, though, and I'll offer them here:

1. If someone suggests them as a defensive load....you've identified someone who shouldn't be listened to.
2. an EXCELLENT way to demonstrate the value of Flite Control in "intro to defensive shotgun" classes (I like using them to demonstrate the danger of a pellet going off-target)
3. Conversation piece to demonstrate the accuracy of the phrase "There are no solutions, only trade-offs" which I know I stole from someone on a recent modcast but can't recall whom (my apologies)

 

[TheBigDog65]

Friends do not let friends buy that crapper PDX1 ammo. It's junk and I only use it to demo what not to buy and why.

That said... the 9 pellet buckshot load below that Winchester is making under the Defender brand seems to be a much different story. Copper plated buck shot to resist deformation (just like FFC) and at a reduced velocity. From what I can see it is using some manner of AA wad (which are gold standard in clay sports) It shot well out of one of my unmodified 870s with a fixed Cylinder choke. I have a Mossberg barrel out at Vang Comp right now getting their magic done to it, optimized for conventional buck shot and not FFC. When that barrel comes home I plan to run some of this Winchester load through it and see what it does. My local big box has been stocking this load in quantity of late and if it patterns well out of the Vang barrel I will buy more.

 

[pointblank4445]

Friends do not let friends buy that crapper PDX1 ammo. It's junk and I only use it to demo what not to buy and why.

That said... the 9 pellet buckshot load below that Winchester is making under the Defender brand seems to be a much different story. Copper plated buck shot to resist deformation (just like FFC) and at a reduced velocity. From what I can see it is using some manner of AA wad (which are gold standard in clay sports) It shot well out of one of my unmodified 870s with a fixed Cylinder choke. I have a Mossberg barrel out at Vang Comp right now getting their magic done to it, optimized for conventional buck shot and not FFC. When that barrel comes home I plan to run some of this Winchester load through it and see what it does. My local big box has been stocking this load in quantity of late and if it patterns well out of the Vang barrel I will buy more.


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In the time since I started this thread, I have:
- learned the virtues of Flite Control
- Bought one of the Vang Comp 590a1's and taken it to a Fisher Shotgun class
- Sent my Rem 870P off for a Vang Comp make-over (though I probably could have left that fixed IC barrel alone as it was a demon with FFC as is)
- shot more shells in 2023 than pretty much all of the 2010's total
- learned that my education on the "tactical" 12ga is pretty much ass-backward or at the very least rooted in dated technology and context

Yep, the combo of slug/buck is the WORST of both worlds.

 

[Whiskey]

A buddy picked up some of that slug/buck combo on accident, so we shot it during a range day. Slug went well enough within 25 yards for the drills we were doing, but the pellets were completely unpredictable. We knew it was junk going in, but it was fun enough to prove it.

 

[TheBigDog65]

In the time since I started this thread, I have:
- learned the virtues of Flite Control
- Bought one of the Vang Comp 590a1's and taken it to a Fisher Shotgun class
- Sent my Rem 870P off for a Vang Comp make-over (though I probably could have left that fixed IC barrel alone as it was a demon with FFC as is)
- shot more shells in 2023 than pretty much all of the 2010's total
- learned that my education on the "tactical" 12ga is pretty much ass-backward or at the very least rooted in dated technology and context

Yep, the combo of slug/buck is the WORST of both worlds.

Training with Mr. Fisher is a good thing. I hope to do more of it in the future since my first experience with him last year. If I can suggest, a class with Ashton Ray of 360 Performance Shooting or Tim Chandler of Justified Defensive Concepts will give you a top shelf experience with the gauge. I've trained with them, and the Haughts as well.

 

[pointblank4445]

Training with Mr. Fisher is a good thing. I hope to do more of it in the future since my first experience with him last year. If I can suggest, a class with Ashton Ray of 360 Performance Shooting or Tim Chandler of Justified Defensive Concepts will give you a top shelf experience with the gauge. I've trained with them, and the Haughts as well.

Running the shotgun (especially pump) has never been an issue...it was really more about getting a fresh perspective and giving myself license to given it more attention and evaluating the newer tech that's moved the bar in the mean time when playing with shotguns was more of a side interest.

Though I would not say no to a Haught class were they to be in the vicinity again.

 

[Kwachen]

Training with Mr. Fisher is a good thing. I hope to do more of it in the future since my first experience with him last year. If I can suggest, a class with Ashton Ray of 360 Performance Shooting or Tim Chandler of Justified Defensive Concepts will give you a top shelf experience with the gauge. I've trained with them, and the Haughts as well.

I wholeheartedly second this advice- I'm going to my third shotgun class with Tim in May, and couldn't be more excited. Ashton is similarly excellent- and the two of them teaching together is a must-see.