Why single point slings are not the best option...

Matt Landfair

Matt Six Actual
Staff member
Administrator
Lack of control

Transitions can be more painful.

Does not provide additional stability for various shooting positions.

Lacks retention ability.

Bonus points for who can say why single points were developed- (Justin and Buck can't answer)
 

jr1572

Amateur
Lack of control

Transitions can be more painful.

Does not provide additional stability for various shooting positions.

Lacks retention ability.

Bonus points for who can say why single points were developed- (Justin and Buck can't answer)

Weren't they made to be used in conjunction with one of those hook things that get placed on the belt?

I'm guessing...

JR1572
 

ROMPER

Amateur
I don't know......call me out if you will, but I actually prefer single point slings for entry work. I enjoyed having the ability to transitions shoulders when approach on a wrong angle corner. Never really saw an issue with transition to pistol. Now that I am no longer doing entries, I prefer the over the shoulder two point sling.....I think it is a better open field option.
I shied away from the over the shoulder for so long because I freaking HATED the three point slings from back in the old MP5 days......yes I am that old.

R
 

ptrlcop

Established
Single points can be usable if you run them right and have something to hook your rifle behind when it's slung(I used my radio when I was on patrol prior to changing to a 2pt). The PIG drop slider worked pretty good.

Does anyone actually switch shoulders inside? I can see for conforming to cover, but I've never done it indoors. Wouldn't a 2pt used as a neck loop work just as well?
 

ROMPER

Amateur
Does anyone actually switch shoulders inside? I can see for conforming to cover, but I've never done it indoors. Wouldn't a 2pt used as a neck loop work just as well?

LOL, I do/did.....when running a single point. But I am fairly comfortable shooting from support side. I wouldn't use a single point for anything other than entry work......
Transitions shoulder to shoulder is much simpler with a single point and with practice can be a conditioned response. With an over the shoulder can still be done but there is the extra step of dropping the support arm inside the sling.

R
 

Fatboy

Established
The best use of a single point sling I've ever encountered was by a Navy EOD Chief. His was set up so it connected on his support shoulder, there was just enough sling to get to his firing side and when he let it drop it automatically fell to the support side out of the way. If he needed to keep it stowed, he had a bungee cord connected to a snap link to lock it at his side.

The only time I really felt the need to run a single point was attached to a breaching shotgun on my strong side. I also had a weapons catch to keep it from flapping around when not in use.
 

victran

Amateur
I like both and am currently running a Magpul MS1 padded 2 point sling converted for 2 to 1 ability. I ran the VTAC 2 point sling for a number of years prior when running a 13-15" rail and stock fully out. Ran a 1 point with an older setup and the slay with the longer hand guard just didn't feel right with me. I wanted to experiment with a shorter rail for 1 point slings and felt that even with a 14.5" barrel and 12" hand guard, a 1 point sling stowed the weapon tight enough without burning my leg, same went for a 9" hand guard. Sure I lose the ability to use the sling to support the gun on the fly, but I'm often shooting within 50 meters when I'm using my carbine. If I had to shoot beyond 100 meters then I generally would take a support position or go prone. Of course, this is just me at my personal practice and what I have experienced at classes. It all varies in the end, I personally feel more secure switching shoulders with the 1 point than 2 point necklace method. The necklace method has all that weight around your neck and say whatever you say about it, but getting choked out by your sling is far easier because things can happen. I recognize that and still use the necklace method if I was running a 2 point regardless, just maintain the respected amount of awareness. etc etc
 

ZAMBONI

Newbie
I learned a lot from this thread. My conditions are different in rural Montana. I use single point slings except when hunting. I can elaborate more fully, but not sure if it would be considered thread off topic.

Briefly, single point quick detach use AR/shotgun for me happens day/night short duration rapid response to physical threats man/beast. I can go into more detail with several engagement examples. Law enforcement is hour away if they show at all. Sometimes blizzard conditions and heavy clothing.
 

Wil

Member
My issue with single point slings starts with the transition issue. Every single time I try to get it to swing to the support/reaction side, its always swings back and smacks me in my groin. Right in the ol' Safety Deposit Box. Especially during movement, I always had issues with the single point being straight down the front. And, being on the shorter side of stature, when I would go to my knees, a standard 16" carbine tended to smack right up underneath my jaw. That was a painful lesson! Even with the two point it still try's to come back to the front, center, however it at least it is still slanted to one side far enough that isn't in the way.
 

Asr34

Amateur
Most of my cons for a 1-point come from that I end up carrying a rifle ALOT more at work than I do shooting people with it. Mostly, it is searching for bad person, finding bad person, then having to touch bad person. Holding perimeters are in there too. 2-point slings offer me better security and stability while touching bad people or doing other things with my hands. I also like that if I have to climb over something or down from somewhere, I can sling it on my back barrel up and not flag everyone.
 

Longinvs

Regular Member
Quantified Performance
I think a lot of times that end users just think about sling application inside of the narrow window that is weapon employment. I mean if all you do for work is kick in door shoot bad guy then maybe a case could be made for a single point, I don't know, that's not my lane. But if you have to do anything administrative having a two point is way more beneficial. I played around with a single point just pulling armory security before I pistol qualed and the gun becomes unmanageable if you don't have a hand on it. With a two point if I need to go hands on with something or do an admin task, work with loading/unloading vics, etc. the VTac sling I used allowed me to tighten the rifle completely to my body and not have a pendulum attached to me.
 

MrMurphy

Regular Member
Went from 3 pt to 1 for a very short while to 2pt adjustable, VTAC or VCAS. Carry and search FAR more than anything, weapon catches were not available.
 

fwrun

Newbie
I was on a mile long track after standing on perimeter for about 30 minutes a couple shifts back. My responsibility was covering the handler as he watched his partner. We had to jump over several high fences, and having the 2 point sling made life a hell of a lot easier. And the thing about successful dog tracks... you have to arrest the guy at the end. While the dog is chewing, the 2 point makes cuffing less complicated.

Regarding indoor work with a 2 point, it’s pretty easy to just pull your arm out loop it around your neck. Ends up being just as mobile as a 1 point.
 

user12358

Regular Member
Regarding indoor work with a 2 point, it’s pretty easy to just pull your arm out loop it around your neck. Ends up being just as mobile as a 1 point.

Something like the Redback One sling which is designed to be used as a neckloop is the best example of this philosophy. Able to secure the rifle to you and use both hands freely, the advantages of a two point when transitioning to secondary, far less snagging on your kit when compared to a Viking or Vickers style worn traditionally, the ability to simply change shoulders without having to drop inside the sling, and less things getting in the way when reloading when compared to an end of rail mounted 2 point.

The only major downside to that method that I have found is it is not as versatile as a shooting support as a VTAC with the front point mounted forward of your support hand. Not really a big issue for close to intermediate distance.
 

Oak City Tactics

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
We issued single points with mash hooks for a long time to the troops with patrol rifles. I think maybe when they started it was an unsullied option. Not a good option, just an unchallenged one. This would have been around 2006. Well there was a succession of folks in that lane that sat in their laurels and left good enough alone for about 12 years. Meanwhile Swat went from 3 points to 2 points about the same time and never looked back.

Fast forward to 2017. We (Swat)took a metro type unit and conducted additional training with this unit as requested. It involved shooting and moving in pairs, care under fire, and officer rescue. Then we sat back and let the cameras roll. Uncle Pat would have been proud of the Tom Fuckery we were able to document. Simple scenario. Bound down to a wounded officer in a patrol car. Neutralize the threat respresented via moving steel target with minimal exposures. Address care under fire issues with a TQ and evacuate the officer out of the kill zone while suppressing the bad guy.

We showed that the moment officers stopped Range shooting and started scenario based work, the sling failed miserably. The officer got cracked in the head, every single evolution involved at least one plugged muzzle. This was as a direct result of it dragging or poking in the mud. The guns came to rest muzzle down in both the mud and on the victims body.

Once hands became occupied with real tasks there was no control of the carbine anymore and it went everywhere. Magazine releases got depressed accidentally. Carbines were dropped to relieve the stresses. One out of every pair obstructed their muzzles. Several had to be pulled and cleared for fear of an accident. Carrying the casualty off the X was terrible to watch. Some officers were choked out by the sling.

In addition, the steel mash hook cut on the swivel stud left on the rifle slowly. I documented all these incidents and presented them to the Deputy Chief for review. Ultimately.
 

Oak City Tactics

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Ultimately he could not disagree. I then showed a series of demos with Swat guys with two points cinched tight to the chest doing things like moving And searching people. Providing buddy aid. Climbing all while maintaining total control. The transition to the two point began.
 
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