Why don’t people train?

Matt Landfair

Matt Six Actual
Staff member
Administrator
https://tacticalprofessor.wordpress.com/2015/03/11/why-dont-people-train/

"Owning a handgun doesn’t make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician."

–Jeff Cooper

Of all the things Jeff Cooper said, the above saying has become the most prevalent mantra within the firearms training community. It has been memed in many ways. The latest I saw was ‘Without training, you are just pretending.’ The original saying and its various memes allude to the need for gun owners to be trained, ‘regulated’ in the sense of the Second Amendment, in order to be able to effectively use their weapons for personal protection. Why, then, don’t more gunowners pursue training beyond the bare legal minimum, where required?

First of all, let’s confront the validity of the statement itself. We should note that there are quite a few capable musicians and singers who are self-trained. With regard to firearms, the firearms training industry has really only existed since the mid-1970s, when Jeff Cooper founded the American Pistol Institute at Gunsite. Before then, even many police officers didn’t receive much in the way of training. There were virtually no venues available for formal training for Private Citizens, other than the Boy Scouts or Camp Perry. Does this mean that in the 200 years of US history preceding the foundation of API, the American people were ‘unarmed?’ Of course not. Americans have a rich history of shooting predatory no-goods without a moment’s hesitation, even before the foundation of the Republic.

On an almost daily basis, we read and circulate reports of Armed Private Citizens defending themselves, their families, and their neighbors with firearms. The vast majority of these incidents are successfully solved by people who have not one bit of formal training. What this means is we trainers can’t have our cake and eat it, too. Every time we celebrate a successful defense, and rightfully so, we essentially invalidate Cooper’s saying.

What are the reasons a gunowner might cite for not taking training, assuming it’s available, which is a separate issue? There are any number of reasons, such as:

  • Time
  • Expense
  • Accessibility
  • Scheduling
  • Lack of motivation
  • Lack of incentive
  • Lack of understanding
Time and expense should be discussed together because they are both personal resource constraints. The time demands on most people are extensive, especially in a single parent family. Similarly, money is tight for the majority of Americans. The question “How much is your life worth?,” another popular meme in the training community, is moot when the rent is due tomorrow and your kids want to eat.

Accessibility and scheduling are another pair of related issues. According to the US Census, 80.7 percent of Americans live in urban areas. Where are most training facilities? Out in the boonies, in what the Census describes as ‘rural areas.’ While there is some instruction that goes on at indoor ranges, my experience is that it is best described as ‘familiarization’ rather than training. This is a huge disconnect. The location of training facilities is a factor that impacts the time issue I previous mentioned. If a person has to budget several additional hours or days, just for travel purposes, that becomes yet another resource constraint.

To its credit, the NRA Training Division is trying to address this issue through the use of a ‘Blended Training Model’ of both online and in-person training. The result among the NRA Instructor community has been mostly anger and serious pushback. Much of the dissension is based on pure economics. I’ll let you draw your own conclusions about that.

With regard to scheduling, when do trainers tend to schedule training mostly? I submit that we schedule when it’s convenient for us, not for the students. That’s one reason I have gone exclusively to short evening classes and one day only weekend classes. Asking people to spend both days of a weekend, out in the sticks, is simply an unreasonable demand on their time.

Lack of motivation, incentive, and understanding are allied factors, as well. About them I will say we in the community simply haven’t made a good case for what we teach and why we teach it. This is especially true in light of the regular reports of people who successfully defend themselves and their families without any training. Although we trainers spend a certain amount of time talking about what we teach, we still haven’t made a good overall business case for “What is the value of training?” Until we do, folks just aren’t going to come. I think the training community might benefit from some Dale Carnegie training for itself.
 

hogarth

Member
Great topic!

On the local MD Shooters forum where I post a fair amount, I've been posting AARs of the different classes I've taken over the last two years (some of which I cross posted here).

Each of the last two years, I've started the year with a "what training are YOU taking this year", and lead off with my own list. And by training, it doesn't HAVE to be firearms. It could be red cross certs, wilderness survival, knife or unarmed combative, etc. It's interesting to see what people are interested in.

Anyway, so this year I listed the four classes I'm registered for, and people were shocked at the financial outlay and the time commitment (one person joked that my wife must not like me to be home...Hardee Har Har!).

So these seem to be the big constraints. Travel is an issue, too, and travel includes a further time and $ commitment.

Finally, there is the opinion among some that "training" makes you some sort of wannabe super-commando, which is frowned upon in some firearm circles.
 

dan512

Newbie
The excuse I have encountered recently is the "I'm not that interested in shooting" or "I just don't take it that seriously" which is fine, except that is coming from individuals that have firearms for home defense and carry them from time to time. It kills me that folks own guns, but are not interested in using them effectively. It seems akin to buying a table saw and using it to open packages.
 

Mick-boy

Member
VIP
Excellent topic. I think you broke it down really well. I think the time/expense factor is huge. The "advanced course" thread Pat Rogers started on LF had some good comments regarding the one day class format. I think there's a market for it assuming you can overcome the a)intimidation and b)lack of understanding.

I believe intimidation plays a large part on why people don't seek out training (or shoot competition). Most guys believe that being born with their testicles means they should automatically be able to fuck like North, drive like Andretti and shoot like Leatham. Finding out they can't terrifies most men. Breaking through that often requires a lot of hand holding and TLC. Explaining that shooting (or driving or fucking) are learned skills that can greatly benefit from instruction and mentoring often needs to be handled delicately. It's easy for a lot of guys to perceive it as an attack on their manhood.

The lack of understanding, I think, is huge but it's going to slowly go away as the uber-fudds die off.

[begin Long-ish narative]Dan512 and I were at the club where we shoot on Monday when we were approached by the Vice-President of the club. he brought up a couple of things and then asked for our feedback. When we addressed the club's policy on training (1:1 instructor to shooter ratio, only one student shooting at a time, instructor has to come before the board to present the POI prior to a class being approved) the VP was completely floored by the idea that experienced shooters would pay to take a class. He had no idea that there were "nationally known instructors". Finally he'd never heard of "running a line" with multiple shooters firing the same drill at the same time. To quote Dan512. "We were standing on the same range but we were on different planets".[/Long-ish narative]

All that to say, I think there is a generational gap in training. Guys who shot a deer every fall but have rarely thought of using a rifle as a weapon are going move on down the path and the mindset of the community will slowly shift.
 

regdudedrtyjob

Regular Member
The guys I have talked to at work about taking a class give the excuse of either not having the money (and I'm assuming ammo), time, or desire to take the class. I think it really comes down to desire, because if you WANTED to take a class and get better, you would. Deeds, not words. I'm trying right now to figure out which class I want to take and make it happen, but it starts with saving money for the class and getting the ammo I will need.
 

Chris Taylor

Random Factor of the K Power
Money/cost, both real and perceived, is a huge factor.

Considering that, unless a class is local, you have: travel time, class time, lodging, food, and gas; plus ammo, range/traing kit (that most people don't already have sitting around) and incidentals, shit can get (relatively) expensive quick the first time or two. Especially for the dude making $8-10/hr at Lowe's or CVS that may get a weeks vacation every year. And if he does, momma probably wants to use it to go to Myrtle Beach.

Add in the (my gun/gear/skill isn't up to par) intimidation, and training starts taking a back seat. Sure, by scrimping and saving, eating ramen and not going out, someone could save enough for one or two classes a year, but when they also don't want to look like a noob, that sixer starts sounding better and betterer. ;)

Plus, there's an educational gap. Many of these folks are the ones that think a DPMS or Bushmaster make awesome guns. They know enough to know they need "something", but don't know enough to buy a better quality product. They buy what they've seen in G&A. Then they watch a few 'net videos from probably questionable 'instructors', and think that's enough. As we say all the time, they don't know what they don't know.

They are victims of their own frame of reference, as are we all.

We, as an industry, need to start reaching out to John Q Public and Susie Homemaker, and helping them make good decisions, educating them on the "whats'n'whys", not just telling them "go forth and do".
 

hogarth

Member
Jumping back in, I had not thought of the "intimidation" factor, but it is out there. I still get nervous when I show up for each class.

Here is where I have to give credit to the Magpul videos and the explosion of YouTube videos that made me see, more or less, what to expect from such a class. For me, these things took away a lot of the "fear or the unknown".
 

Grizzly

Regular Member
My take on its that paying for knowledge doesn't appeal to people. People like physical things in exchange for money.

In shooting it is clear. Guys will go buy $1000 worth of ammo to shoot from a bench rest or at pumpkins in the back yard. But ask them to pay $300 for a 3 day pistol class that needs $300 in ammo and they freak out like they are being raped buy a used care salesmen. Other places are the same. Look at survival/shtf stuff. Preppers will buy the latest gear, backpacks food stuffs etc but how many go to a primitive survival training school or even buy books about genuine skills.
 

JimH

Regular Member
Why don't people train...I feel it is very difficult to distill the thoughts (on the .civ side of this) on this, but I will try to skin the cat and flesh out the main ideas (at least in my own humble mind).

I agree with all of Riafdnal's 7 reasons for not getting training. I don't think they need to be rehashed again. For me, there are a couple of questions that incorporate some of those reasons at the same time:

1. Is/Was there an event that happened that started people thinking about training, or inspired people to put their money where their mouth was, and finally write the check and take the class? If not an event, what was the motivation for crossing the threshold? For me, it was the events surrounding Katrina. Seeing that footage in a city that was 5 hrs, away from me (at that time) really started me to think that I needed some good training. Before that, I really thought I had enough shooting experience needed in normal every day life. Is there a way to communicate to regular shooters that they may not be ready for a Katrina like level event? Is there something else to turn on the lightbulb?

2. If I do decide to go train and take a class...Where to go for good training? Do you go somewhere based on what you learn about the instructor, what you read on "those" sites, or do you go somewhere based on the information out " there "on the facility? Do media such as TV shows or webcasts make a difference? There are the traveling gypsies out there, that seem to set up all around the US, in different locations......Then there are the facilities out there that have different instructors teaching....Then there are the facilities that have the same good instructors, but they don't offer, or rarely offer OE or .civ classes. Where do new people, looking for good training go, to find out who is good, who is bad, and who is the just plain ugly. Social media has become such a BIG part of this process. I would think that one of the worst things an instructor can do is get up on a big site and go and insult/piss off thousands of potential students, not to mention thousands of people who are about to spend thousands of dollars on gear......but then again maybe I'm wrong about this.... I am just one of the regular little people out there, trying to find the oasis of real training and good gear in a sea of self-promoting silliness .

3. Finding training that can work into a vacation schedule. While this may sound silly to some or most, for those of us who have limited (or none) vacation time, and no classes offered within a reasonable weekend drive distance, this is about the only option left for training. I have looked for a nice vacation spot where the wife (and family) can go and do cool vacation stuff, and also has a good training facility that I (and maybe the wife) can take a training class. While there are a couple that kind of fit the bill, none that I know of are really geared toward the training vacation set-up. When I win the Poweball, I am going to go buy a rather large chunk on the Nevada dessert, close to a particular city, lure the best instructors I have had, and set up the shop. Some day..
 

Jackrabbit

Member
A similar question would be "why don't people practice?"

This may be the most obvious thing I've said in a week, but having a piece of paper in your training log saying you trained with XYZ Dynamic Tactical Concepts 3 years ago doesn't mean jack if you didn't take notes and incorporate the principles, skills, and drills into a personal training regimen. Training lays a groundwork for practice.
 

AT Armor

Member
Vendor
In my opinion the majority of shooters that dont pay for training just dont see the value in it. Period. I think you could offer a good class for $50 "in the local area" and the result would be the same within a few percentage points. Those that place value on the gain would still find a way to attend the same class at $200 and a day's drive. Outside of the legitimate time (vacation) and distance factors that affect the serious shooters, for the rest it comes down to motivation and fear. Can those among us who take this seriously attend every class? Of course not. There are legitimate time and budget constraints. But the majority of us will find a way to get to one or two each year.

I don't think this will work itself out. Think about the ratio of "old" attendees vs first timers in classes, especially at the national level. Read the "AAR"s and you will see the same trend. Just in the last week I have tried unsuccessfully to convince several guys that shoot to go to a national level class being held here locally. Result: No joy. Nada. Nein. Nix. Excuses were mostly monetary, but my gut tells me it is they just flat out don't want to do it.
 

EF2000

Newbie
I've told a fair amount of my friends who are casual gun owners to seek training. Most of the time, they would ask me why.. and without hesitation I broke it to them that just owning the gun doesn't mean that you're proficient with it. I've had to throw in that quote by Jeff Cooper a couple of times, so that they can see where I'm coming from. From that point on, they were more interested in what I had to say. Some of those friends asked me to let them know in advance when I'd be taking a class, whether from a well known instructor or a local one. I guess with each individual you meet, YMMV, and like AT Armor said, if they do not see the value, they won't pay for instruction, let alone be interested in getting instruction.

That brings me to a whole new point though.. I've encountered people who know the value of training, but do NOT want to actually pay for it. I know this may sound odd, but I know a few people who have volunteered to take pictures for courses, bring their own blasters, and proceed to run a few drills with those that paid for the class. What I'm saying may sound like a common occurrence, but it's alarming when said photographer posts a photo/video of himself shooting at the class on social media, and answers ambiguously to questions asked by his peers if he's taking the class administered by "insert popular instructor here." And then said-photographer proceeds to talk to his peers as if he actually took the class, saying things like "we learned X and did this drill." It may be very well true that they may have learned something, but I am not a fan of abusing a position in order to save some money.

I am of the belief that individuals like the one I mentioned above are cancerous to the community. What I mentioned above was based on personal experience, dealing with a friend of mine.. I know that issues like money, location, and time are legitimate factors to plan for and attend training, but I cannot fathom someone that seeks to get "training" by abusing a position. It feels like the lowest of the low IMO.
 

ScottPM09

Member
Hogarth mentioned the intimidation factor. I too still get nervous when showing up for class or competition, but like many here, that nervousness is usually harnessed in the form of striving to beat or outperform others in competition (whether the other shooters know it or not). This adds the mental stress to surpass your own plateau. Other shooters, particularly those who we are referring to in this thread, are scared to death of this mental stress. As Mick-Boy said, it is taken as a personal insult to their man/woman-hood. I had been ignorant to this excuse until I ran into numerous people who told me that they did not want to attend "advanced" level courses or competitions for their fear of doing poorly (these folks were cops/soldiers/citizens). Their financial concerns, although partially legitimate, made an easy scapegoat.

Each individual is different in their reasons, but these were the most prominent that I have witnessed. Oh yeah, and unless cops around here get paid overtime, use a department vehicle for transit, have their hotel paid for, get issued ammo, receive a pet pony, have their meals covered, go on a not too hot but not too cold day, and get a free full body massage afterwards when they pull a muscle, they ain't going. o_O
 
A similar question would be "why don't people practice?"

This may be the most obvious thing I've said in a week, but having a piece of paper in your training log saying you trained with XYZ Dynamic Tactical Concepts 3 years ago doesn't mean jack if you didn't take notes and incorporate the principles, skills, and drills into a personal training regimen. Training lays a groundwork for practice.
My practice is limited for several reasons
1 Distance and time to and from the range. 50 miles round trip.
2 Lack of a training partner
3 Without supervision/ observation/ feedback I worry about bad habits or unsafe practices sliding into my practice.

I do practice once or twice a month and tend to take things slowly working on form rather than speed.

I try and do two or so classes a year usually pistol with rife mixed in on occation. Shot gun and pistol this year if I can put it together.
 

jmatt511

Amateur
I can hold my own with a variety of different weapon systems. That said, I seek out training 2-4 times a year because I don't know it all. Yes, it's expensive. Class fee, ammo, travel and hotel/meals. I paid for it all myself. My agency did not. I think as Americans, we feel it is in our DNA to be the local gunslinger whether it's Wyatt Earp or William Bonney. I think it's the ego and the financial problems that get to most of use. For some it's more ego. For others, more logistics and finances. I can't stress enough for any shooter to at least attend one class so you can see what your missing. You won't know unless you actually go to a class. Even attending a local competition has it's merits. You aren't as good as you think you are. It's a real eye opener. To paraphrase Clint, don't be a legend in your own mind.
 

ptrlcop

Established
In an organizational setting I think that low qualification standards fool a lot of people into thinking they are better than they are. Interestingly when you raise the bar, a lot of people achieve the new standard without much thought.

WI recently instituted a mandatory qual hat isn't hard but is much more than what many places were requiring. A lot of guys got better simply by raising the bar of how good was defined.

Most cops around here have never seen what really good shooting even looks like so they figure 90% on the qual must make them an "A" shooter...
 

PM07

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
LEO wise, and also saw this in the MIL to a lesser extent, the #1 reasons are just plain lazy and EGO. Anything else is just an excuse for the most part. They dont want to be embaressed buy being outshot and they dont want to make an effort to get the Training.
 

KMo1205

Member
Geography has a lot to do with it as well. In my local area, there are not a lot of places to get professional training, outside of the NRA "qualified" instructors. I recently found a training facility 2.5 hours away and have already signed up for 2 classes in two months.

Money is definitely an obstacle and time is the other. The cost of the class is actually the least expensive part of taking the class in many cases. The ammo and the lodging will easily trump the cost of most classes.
 
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