DBReynolds
Newbie
I just picked up a bushmaster xm15. i don't see a lot of reviews on them and am wondering why so there isn't much about them in the ar community. The quality, so far seems just as good as my 6920.
Why are bushmasters considered sub quality?
- Thread starter DBReynolds
- Start date
Lack of quality assurance and quality control.
Bushmaster is not in the same league as a Colt 6920.
Bushmaster is not in the same league as a Colt 6920.
JDRemf
Amateur
This is a teachable moment.
There are specific, simple answers as to why a duty grade weapon is better suited to its role than a "hobby grade" firearm. Most of the attributes are not immediately apparent to less experienced eyes. It would be beneficial for those experienced individuals to share that info, or links to the information, so the word can spread.
There are specific, simple answers as to why a duty grade weapon is better suited to its role than a "hobby grade" firearm. Most of the attributes are not immediately apparent to less experienced eyes. It would be beneficial for those experienced individuals to share that info, or links to the information, so the word can spread.
Bushmaster traditionally has used poor quality material, assembly and QC to start with. Out of spec material, out of spec bolt, carriers, barrels etc., , lack of staking, lack of QC measures like HPI/MPI testing are just a short list I can think of right now.
Iraqgunz
Semper Paratus Arms
Sorry that I didn't see this sooner. Bushmaster is pretty much crap. That said, marketing is great and BM has been around for a long time (before they were Bushmaster they were Quality Parts Corp.).
We had 500 Bushmaster carbines on contract in Iraq for use by Ex Pats. Every single one of them had issues. Just some of the stuff off the top of my head-
1. Commercial Receiver Extensions with no stakings of castle nuts and end plates.
2. Use of cheap carbine and not "H" buffers.
3. Use of crappy screws and stakings for the Bolt Carrier key.
4. Batch tested bolts and barrels HP/MPI (older barrels used 4140 and not 4150 CMV).
5. Incorrect extractor spring buffer (older models in the mid 2000's).
6. Out of spec chambers. This was a big issue. We started to experience lots of extraction issues over time. All chambers had to be reamed with the chamber reamer from M-Guns which cured most of the issues.
7. Lack of M4 feed ramps in upper receivers.
This is more than enough to deter any serious consideration. If your BM is working for you and you feel happy, that's great. A 6920 it is not.
We had 500 Bushmaster carbines on contract in Iraq for use by Ex Pats. Every single one of them had issues. Just some of the stuff off the top of my head-
1. Commercial Receiver Extensions with no stakings of castle nuts and end plates.
2. Use of cheap carbine and not "H" buffers.
3. Use of crappy screws and stakings for the Bolt Carrier key.
4. Batch tested bolts and barrels HP/MPI (older barrels used 4140 and not 4150 CMV).
5. Incorrect extractor spring buffer (older models in the mid 2000's).
6. Out of spec chambers. This was a big issue. We started to experience lots of extraction issues over time. All chambers had to be reamed with the chamber reamer from M-Guns which cured most of the issues.
7. Lack of M4 feed ramps in upper receivers.
This is more than enough to deter any serious consideration. If your BM is working for you and you feel happy, that's great. A 6920 it is not.
Jonathan Carbonaro
Newbie
To my knowledge no Bushmaster made weapon is currently in service with the U.S. Goverment. U.S. Military forces use a mix of Colt and FN M4's, and to my knowledge the Advanced Combat Rifle that has seen limited service is made by Remington and not Bushmaster. To my knowledge the U.S. Military has never used Bushmaster made weapons.
JUDAN
Member
Bushmaster sold a production run to the Pentagon back in the early to mid 1990s, IIRC.
Not sure how many, but yes, there are a few Bushmasters in U.S. military service
Prove it.
Jonathan Carbonaro
Newbie
I went onto Google to look to see if their was any validity to your claim, I was able to find a thread about it on AR15.com from 2010. However I was unable to find anything more credible. Even if the claims were correct on that thread it doesn't deter from the quality of the work they have produced.
Lobsterclaw207
Regular Member
One may argue that Windham Weaponry (the "new" Bushmaster, in the same factory and owned by the same family) is even worse than Bushmaster. I'm not sure the exact breakdown of what left with Bushmaster when it was sold and moved, in terms of people or intellectual property or design or what.
I do know that Windham is utterly infuriating as a "just as good as...." brand around these parts ( Maine), due to being local and some former cops working there. It's easy to say "yes" when your buddy or so and so from X PD is the one offering you this "great deal".
A PD local to me had issues with a couple of the six rifles they got from WW, I can't remember exactly what but I want to say at least one was completely missing the firing pin retaining pin upon delivery. Could've been a factory issue or someone else removing it, I suppose.
I've been in the WW factory and was unimpressed, compared to photos I've seen of the inside of places like BCM, Larue, DD, and the way they appear to be organized.
I do know that Windham is utterly infuriating as a "just as good as...." brand around these parts ( Maine), due to being local and some former cops working there. It's easy to say "yes" when your buddy or so and so from X PD is the one offering you this "great deal".
A PD local to me had issues with a couple of the six rifles they got from WW, I can't remember exactly what but I want to say at least one was completely missing the firing pin retaining pin upon delivery. Could've been a factory issue or someone else removing it, I suppose.
I've been in the WW factory and was unimpressed, compared to photos I've seen of the inside of places like BCM, Larue, DD, and the way they appear to be organized.
PlasticMag
Amateur
Yes, Bushmaster rifles have NSNs. They were issued for Foreign Military Sales. Bushmasters (converted to use pneumatic 'recoil' devices and infrared lasers) are also used on EST 2000 ranges for marksmanship training. They were not issued to anyone in the DoD to the best of my knowledge.
I have had a mixed bag with Bushmaster. My first AR was a Bushmaster that I ended up replacing the upper receiver group on. The chamber needed to be reamed to accept 5.56mm rounds, and I bought a MOACKS to stake the bolt because it was so shoddily done (I still have the BCG, and it's run reliably since, but it's in a fun gun and not a hard use gun). Numrich bought most of Bushmaster's liquidated stock when they were acquired, and I've bought parts from them for builds. One barrel came with a canted FSB, another came without a chromed barrel (I sent it off to get nitrided, and it looks like it should be solid but I have yet to put rounds through it) - both needed to be reamed. On the other hand I've purchased several stripped Bushmaster upper receivers and all have readily accepted the parts they needed to without slop or fitting required.
I rate older Bushmasters with Palmetto State Armory, Spikes, Stag Arms, Rock River, or many of the other hobby brands. Some parts may be good, some probably won't be, some definitely aren't. I have no experience with Windham Weaponry. That being said, I try to stick to Colt or occasionally Bravo Company (less so these days, they don't make much that I want).
I have had a mixed bag with Bushmaster. My first AR was a Bushmaster that I ended up replacing the upper receiver group on. The chamber needed to be reamed to accept 5.56mm rounds, and I bought a MOACKS to stake the bolt because it was so shoddily done (I still have the BCG, and it's run reliably since, but it's in a fun gun and not a hard use gun). Numrich bought most of Bushmaster's liquidated stock when they were acquired, and I've bought parts from them for builds. One barrel came with a canted FSB, another came without a chromed barrel (I sent it off to get nitrided, and it looks like it should be solid but I have yet to put rounds through it) - both needed to be reamed. On the other hand I've purchased several stripped Bushmaster upper receivers and all have readily accepted the parts they needed to without slop or fitting required.
I rate older Bushmasters with Palmetto State Armory, Spikes, Stag Arms, Rock River, or many of the other hobby brands. Some parts may be good, some probably won't be, some definitely aren't. I have no experience with Windham Weaponry. That being said, I try to stick to Colt or occasionally Bravo Company (less so these days, they don't make much that I want).
Grayman
Established
I use the Lexus to Toyota analogy for this exact discussion:
A Toyota will probably get you where you need to go and for most people it checks the most important box: price.
A Lexus is a combination of higher quality components meshed with craftsmanship from people who give a shit, this of course comes at a higher cost.
Your Bushmaster is cheaper for the exact same reasons. You don't save money by buying the best raw materials, you save money by buying the "as good as" option. You don't save money by employing armorers with actual experience building guns people depend on, you save money by hiring assemblers who have a GED and a questionable ability to consistently perform a task. Bushmaster is saving money by cutting corners and counting on you not knowing the difference. But don't worry it's just as good as brand "x" because someone has an anecdotal report that theirs has been reliable for 500 rounds.
I don't know what the OP's use for his rifle is but understand that there is a good reason I work hard to steer all those who ask my advise away from the "as good as" brands. Your rifle might work for 1,000 rounds or it might work for 10. I prefer to spend my money on products build by those who care, not those who cut corners.
A Toyota will probably get you where you need to go and for most people it checks the most important box: price.
A Lexus is a combination of higher quality components meshed with craftsmanship from people who give a shit, this of course comes at a higher cost.
Your Bushmaster is cheaper for the exact same reasons. You don't save money by buying the best raw materials, you save money by buying the "as good as" option. You don't save money by employing armorers with actual experience building guns people depend on, you save money by hiring assemblers who have a GED and a questionable ability to consistently perform a task. Bushmaster is saving money by cutting corners and counting on you not knowing the difference. But don't worry it's just as good as brand "x" because someone has an anecdotal report that theirs has been reliable for 500 rounds.
I don't know what the OP's use for his rifle is but understand that there is a good reason I work hard to steer all those who ask my advise away from the "as good as" brands. Your rifle might work for 1,000 rounds or it might work for 10. I prefer to spend my money on products build by those who care, not those who cut corners.
JUDAN
Member
My friend ran one lol...
Need actual real info instead of what a friend says.
JUDAN
Member
If his first hand account isn't I don't know what is...