Where did this originate?

I recently posted the below to the LE Facebook page with no one really answering the question.

As an instructor I run into other instructors explaining where to place a rifle on the shoulder different than what I teach. I'm wondering where this came from and the 'why' behind it. Other instructors say to place the bottom of the stock in the shoulder pocket so when the rifle comes up to fire, the top half or more of the stock is sitting above the ofc shoulder. The why they explain is so that the rifle sights (everyone but SWAT has irons) come up in line with your eye instead of dropping your head down to the sights. This makes recoil control more difficult when I see officers shooting and some would benefit from placing the stock lower in the shoulder. The why I have heard does not make sense when I see it in action. I have a an Aimpoint PRO at 2.04 height. I bring the gun up and drop my head slightly to kind of meet in the middle and my whole stock sits on my shoulder. What is the why behind not moving your head down? I have never been given a good explanation so I am curious if someone else knows.

Does anyone know where the "keep your head up and bring the sights to your eye, don't bring your head down to the sights." originated and why not? Seems more efficient to me to drop my head down as I bring the gun up to meet in the middle. I can not find a good answer as to why keeping your head still and bringing the gun up is preferred.
 

MPer15

Newbie
I'm sure someone with some real experience will be along to explain this better but as I've always understood it the why is that by having your head up you have better situational awareness. Scrunching down behind the sights limits your peripheral vision and induces tunnel vision. I also understand that it places additional stress on your body inducing fatigue in your neck and shoulders if you have to he on the gun for an extended period of time.

Now, all that said, I've only ever really seen this in reference to optics. I think that compromising your recoil control to do that with irons may be a misapplication of this technique.
 

BooneGA

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
WARLORD
Unsure of the origins, but it was taught the last time I was at Mid-South with an emphasis on NVG use. As i recall from the explanation, the rifle was indexed to your cheek weld first and the optic presented directly in front of your strong side NVG tube. This allowed for immediate engagement even as you are pulling the rifle back into your shoulder. Unless I am mistaken, this was a technique developed in order to maximize speed of engagement by prioritizing getting the RDS in front of your NVGs and getting rounds on target, vice moving both your head and the rifle which may lead to a delay in getting a useable sight picture.
 
I'm sure someone with some real experience will be along to explain this better but as I've always understood it the why is that by having your head up you have better situational awareness. Scrunching down behind the sights limits your peripheral vision and induces tunnel vision. I also understand that it places additional stress on your body inducing fatigue in your neck and shoulders if you have to he on the gun for an extended period of time.

Now, all that said, I've only ever really seen this in reference to optics. I think that compromising your recoil control to do that with irons may be a misapplication of this technique.
The points you say makes sense, I too feel the potential Benefit from keeping your head up at the cost of reduced split times due to poor recoil control is not worth it. I'm looking for the why so I can provide the why to people if they ask and let them prioritize what they feel is important. I teach things my way, explain why I do things and say if you do something different just know why you do it versus what I am telling you to do.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 
Unsure of the origins, but it was taught the last time I was at Mid-South with an emphasis on NVG use. As i recall from the explanation, the rifle was indexed to your cheek weld first and the optic presented directly in front of your strong side NVG tube. This allowed for immediate engagement even as you are pulling the rifle back into your shoulder. Unless I am mistaken, this was a technique developed in order to maximize speed of engagement by prioritizing getting the RDS in front of your NVGs and getting rounds on target, vice moving both your head and the rifle which may lead to a delay in getting a useable sight picture.
100% agree with this concept from a NV usage. From a patrol officer running iron sights, heads up with poor recoil control due to stock placement doesn't seem to be the most effective way to run a gun effectively in a LE environment.

I've never been in a shooting to actually know one way or another and hoping some experienced instructors or those who have "been there, done that" can shed some light on where this came from.

This has been taught here since the early 2000's when patrol rifles began to be deployed and shotguns phased out. I'm assuming it came from the recoil of .223 being minimal compared to a 12 ga and an emphasis on recoil control was overlooked in lieu of other priorities.

The only explanation I could find online was moving your 8# head versus an (in theory) lighter gun could cause more disruption in a sight picture and make you slower for first shot on target. This came from a YouTube video from what looked like the 90's with a SEAL teaching some shotgun techniques. Other than that I've never heard why its bad to move your head.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 
Top