Asking for a friend who doesn't do Facebook, I have my own opinions but would like to hear others.
Is there any application for a Visible laser only, on a home defense / truck / couch carbine? Im specifically asking about carbines in this case.
Assume the the carbine already has an Aimpoint, SF light, and the shooter is reasonably squared away.
...See More
19 Comments
11Ike Stephens, Lee Gullett and 9 others
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Caleb Chitty Bill Blowers speaks of running lasers as backup a lot
Unlike · Reply · 2 · July 2 at 6:22pm
William Petty Yes
Like · Reply · 1 · July 2 at 6:22pm
Drew Yersin Can you expound and give me scenarios and options? But ik its a holiday and your busy so no worries
Like · Reply · July 2 at 6:24pm
William Petty Running a vis is like cheating. And if I'm trying to clear my own house with family I'll take anything I can get especially if I just woke up. Adverse shooting platforms. Dudes who dot have extensive FoF tend to threat orient anyways.
Unlike · Reply · 5 · July 2 at 6:34pm
Drew Yersin Thanks for the feedback. What product is best suited?
Like · Reply · July 2 at 6:35pm
William Petty Drew Yersin anything that's quality gonna hold a true zero. It's not cheap.
Like · Reply · 4 · July 2 at 6:36pm
Drew Yersin Thats what I'm seeing, its practically worth buying IR capable devices just in case that ever gets added to the stable
Like · Reply · 2 · July 2 at 6:36pm
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Bran Turner Wasn't Fisher talking about lasers for geezers with shitty eyes too?
Like · Reply · 9 · July 2 at 6:23pm
Drew Yersin Right but bill is already getting the NVGs so he "needs" a laserIm wondering if the juice is worth squeeze over MBUS pros
Like · Reply · July 2 at 6:23pm
Bran Turner Vis laser with NODs seems counterproductive
Like · Reply · 1 · July 2 at 6:25pm
Drew Yersin Right I'm saying he's running an IR laser already so the VIS laser is just a bonus. If he didn't need IR lasers would he still be running a laser as a back up
Like · Reply · July 2 at 6:26pm
Bran Turner Intredasting. I yield to Matt's post below this then...
Unlike · Reply · 1 · July 2 at 6:28pm
Bran Turner FWIW, I never used a vis device during .mil CQB/urban.
Like · Reply · July 2 at 6:31pm
Drew Yersin me either, my gut says that its not worth it between cost and training to get proficient but i aint the brightest bulb in the pack
Like · Reply · July 2 at 6:32pm
Bran Turner Me thinks the same.
Like · Reply · July 2 at 6:34pm
Lyle Benjamin Training is not different than using the RDS, other than toggling the switch. A little dry practice does wonders. The cost may be a factor. Depends on where you are on the need/want/ training scatterplot.
Like · Reply · July 3 at 9:32am
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Matt Prime Rds > irons > vis laser for an untrained person for HD
Unlike · Reply · 5 · July 2 at 6:25pm
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Drew Yersin What defines trained? Trained in lasers or trained in rifles?
Like · Reply · 1 · July 2 at 6:26pm
Matt Prime All of the above.
Like · Reply · 1 · July 2 at 6:27pm
Drew Yersin Right so this dude has rifle training, but you have to buy a laser to train/practice right? So is what it brings to a table valuable enough to justify the extra cost / training? Lets assume this dude is willing to "learn" the laser
Like · Reply · July 2 at 6:29pm
Matt Prime For me, vis laser is a secondary. My primary is rds.
For work, vis laser provides additional value that isn't present for home defense.
Unlike · Reply · 3 · July 2 at 6:35pm
Drew Yersin gotcha
Like · Reply · July 2 at 6:35pm
Matt Wicks Matt, any issue with civ lasers getting washed out with a 500 or 1k lumen weapon light?
Unlike · Reply · 2 · July 2 at 6:38pm
Matt Prime I do not know... mine might be non-civ
Like · Reply · July 2 at 6:39pm
Matt Wicks Petty? Is there a vis laser/bright light issue to think about if one does not have access to the military grade aiming lasers?
Like · Reply · 1 · July 2 at 6:41pm · Edited
Stanislaus Katczinsky As a data point, my X400U's light does not wash out the green laser for my eyes under low-light conditions, even at less than 1 yard on white interior walls.
The laser is a 5 mW output, which is the maximum allowed for civilians on the visible spectru...See More
Like · Reply · 1 · July 2 at 6:50pm · Edited
William Petty Matt Wicks I have a civi dbal green viz and does not wash out.
Like · Reply · 8 · July 2 at 7:17pm
Matt Wicks Good to know, thanks!
Like · Reply · 2 · July 2 at 7:17pm
Duane Liptak The FDA laser rules allow civilian 3b for vis since the involuntary blink reflex will close your eye before damage can occur. Class 1 only for IR, since the blink reflex isn't there in non-visible wavelengths. So, IR laser output is the only thing affected by "the rules" for civilians.
Like · Reply · 2 · July 2 at 11:22pm
Drew Yersin Good to know Thanks
Like · Reply · July 2 at 11:29pm
Jacob Carrow Link to civi dbal ?... is it viz only or IR too?
Like · Reply · July 7 at 9:39pm
Drew Yersin Go to TNVC and look under civilian legal lasers. It's the dbal a3 with green laser, ir pointer and ir illuminator
Like · Reply · 1 · July 7 at 10:11pm
Neyene Minded Jacob Carrow I have a new A3 available if interested
Like · Reply · July 10 at 1:58am
Tim Braginton For reference I have a P3 fury and an older red Civvy DBAL. Even on light colored walls at low power setting the laser is still visible.
My .02 the laser is not a replacement for training or an optic but it provides a fairly idiot proof backup. Spend the money for a good one up front you won't regret it
Like · Reply · 2 · July 10 at 2:03pm
Jacob Carrow Neyene Minded don't have the funds currently appreciate the offer bro
Like · Reply · July 10 at 2:45pm
Neyene Minded Jacob Carrow
Like · Reply · July 10 at 3:09pm
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Matt Wicks Doesn't a vis laser lose most of it's appeal when 1.) You're not working as part of a team; and 2.) You're not using night vision and you've got room for irons?
Unlike · Reply · 2 · July 2 at 6:33pm
William Petty I don't think so.
Like · Reply · 2 · July 2 at 6:35pm
Tim Braginton I think the laser is cheap (relatively) insurance that if Murphy shows up piss drunk with his friends you're still covered.
Like · Reply · July 10 at 7:25pm
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Colton Harrill Would there be any situation a vis laser would be desirable in a civilian setting that wouldn't be done better by conventional sighting methods?
Like · Reply · July 2 at 6:41pm
Troy D-Man As mentioned for people with crappy eyes, i dont always put my glasses within reach when i go to sleep. My vision is crappy enough that i would spend a good deal of time trying to find my front sight if i wasnt point shooting at room distance. If i had...See More
Like · Reply · 1 · July 2 at 7:05pm · Edited
Henry Alviar Also what if you lose or break glasses in a defense situation? My vision is shit, in a self defense scenario it is always nagging the back of my mind.
Like · Reply · July 3 at 8:45pm
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Jon Canipe What's faster, flipping up your irons and getting a sight picture, or hitting that huge rubber button my hand is beside anyways?
I like the vis laser as a back up to an optic, provided you have one bright enough. Aside from the ease of activation, it ...See More
Like · Reply · 17 · July 2 at 7:13pm · Edited
Drew Yersin So MAWL civilian version is worth the wait and just not use the IR till nvg becomes a thing for him?
Like · Reply · 1 · July 2 at 7:23pm
Jon Canipe Yeah, I'd say.
I have no experience with non-dual output lasers since the SOPMOD 1 CVL.
Unlike · Reply · 2 · July 2 at 7:27pm
Drew Yersin Thanks Jon
Like · Reply · July 2 at 7:50pm
Drew Yersin Matt I can't tag you but that made me laugh
Like · Reply · July 2 at 9:44pm
Marco Calderon Jon Canipe could you expand a little on why the ATPIAL-C is bad? With a $1300 price tag I would have thought they were pretty solid, and TNVC was showcasing them for a while. Just curious about your experience.
Like · Reply · July 4 at 12:11am
Jon Canipe The output is weak and the IR flood is not adjustable.
I prefer the ATPIAL to the DBAL from an ergonomic standpoint, and the UHP LA-5 is the best laser that has ever been fielded. The civilian one is weak sauce, and the vis laser is borderline useless just under interior lights in common household rooms.
Like · Reply · 2 · July 4 at 12:22am
Marco Calderon Thanks - much appreciated!
Like · Reply · July 4 at 12:24am
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Bill Blowers Smart dude^. My laser is always on in either Vis or IR mode, by that I mean ready to work with the button. Daylight it is backup to the optic, low light it is backup to the optic if I'm running white light. Gas Mask - Vislaser is primary, optic is bac...See More
Unlike · Reply · 22 · July 3 at 10:19am · Edited
William Petty Yep.
Like · Reply · July 2 at 7:27pm
Drew Yersin So if you guys weren't running NVGs you would still opt to have a VIS laser?
Like · Reply · 1 · July 2 at 7:40pm
William Petty i would / do. Can't speak for buffalo bill.
Like · Reply · 2 · July 2 at 8:19pm
Bill Blowers Ditto
Like · Reply · 3 · July 2 at 8:57pm
Drew Yersin Thanks guys.
Like · Reply · July 2 at 8:57pm
Lyle Benjamin Preach it Bill! Vis lasers are the future.
Like · Reply · 1 · July 3 at 9:26am
Andrew Moon Bill Blowers
In regards to your comment about not having irons, was it the irons you were referring to as obsolete? If so, are you meaning because thelaser is quicker?
Like · Reply · July 26 at 1:49pm
Bill Blowers Yes.
Like · Reply · 1 · July 26 at 1:51pm
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Drew Yersin Alright thanks everyone. The message I'm getting is that the juice is worth squeeze if you get training and you might as well buy a IR capable device such as the MAWL, or dbal D2?
Like · Reply · July 2 at 7:26pm
Caleb Chitty The DBAL-A3 is the latest
Like · Reply · July 2 at 7:28pm
Josh Toole Super shitty picture but that's a fury and a DBAL-A3 civi version. Green vis laser shows up like a champ but the picture makes it look dull.
Unlike · Reply · 1 · July 2 at 10:12pm · Edited
Drew Yersin Thanks josh
Like · Reply · July 2 at 8:39pm
Josh Toole No problem.
Slight edit it's a DBAL A3
Like · Reply · July 2 at 10:12pm · Edited
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Duane Liptak Just for the record, before someone jumps in and says, "but you all don't like vis lasers for pistols", on a carbine, if the dot goes out, you still have a tube that puts your eye where is needs to be to find the "spot". If the glass is occluded or bro...See More
Unlike · Reply · 6 · July 2 at 11:29pm
Drew Yersin Thanks for clarifying that, I knew there was a reason buy wasn't sure what it was
Like · Reply · July 2 at 11:30pm
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Jon Canipe Only reason I don't have one on every pistol is even if you get one of the semi-decent pistol light/laser combos they're huge and their holster options usually suck. It's not a space constraint on most rifles.
Unlike · Reply · 8 · July 2 at 11:38pm
Chad Swartout Can someone recommend a good via laser
Like · Reply · July 3 at 10:29pm
Caleb Chitty DBAL-I2 Is the cheapest rifle model.
Like · Reply · July 4 at 12:40am
Bill Blowers Just Vis laser, OTAL is cheapest.
Like · Reply · July 10 at 1:13am
Aaron Trevino So Bill, OTAL classic, OTAL-A or OTAL Class 1? For patrol use with that limited budget being a concern.
Like · Reply · 1 · July 10 at 3:15pm · Edited
Shelby Edward Good question
Like · Reply · 1 · July 10 at 3:06pm
Bill Blowers Matt Prime has been beating a version up on patrol, he probably has better insight
Like · Reply · July 10 at 7:18pm
Matt Prime I have a green restricted OTAL-A. It has been a great addition to my rifle. Multiple classes (including DARC Lectc) and patrol
Like · Reply · 1 · July 10 at 7:20pm · Edited
Caleb Chitty Restricted means it has an IR laser also right?
Like · Reply · July 10 at 7:35pm
Matt Prime No, it has a greater output
Like · Reply · July 10 at 7:43pm
Caleb Chitty All I see on the website is item #9052 with the Class IIIAlaser, I must be missing something. Only one that's on TNVC as well
Like · Reply · July 10 at 7:59pm
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Steve Fisher Vis laser is also good and usefull in
Bad weather last years low light carbine class Mike Martin was at
One student had and myself so much water. On on our optics I went over to him, flipped his vis laser on. And showed him how to use it as primary aiming unit ...See More
Unlike · Reply · 9 · July 10 at 12:56am
Lee Gullett For the vis laser proponents, within civvie use do you find its worth it to upgrade to the green laser or will red fit the mission well enough within 50 yards?
Unlike · Reply · 1 · July 10 at 2:28pm
Aaron Trevino Curious about this as well. Looking at the OTAL Classic vs OTAL-A vs OTAL class 1, since that's the range of my budget.
Like · Reply · 1 · July 10 at 2:54pm
Jim Santoro Given that the current crop of green emitters aren't the relatively fragile, temp-sensitive things of just a few years ago...if you can get green, but get red, you're fucked in the head.
The green used is around 532nm (+/-15nm), which is the wavelengt...See More
Unlike · Reply · 4 · July 10 at 5:11pm · Edited
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Drew Yersin And who are the go to teachers for shooting lasers? Or which classes by teacher? I'm guessing most any low light course??
Like · Reply · July 10 at 2:46pm
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Matt Prime Roland is one.
Like · Reply · 1 · July 10 at 2:47pm
Drew Yersin I'm not sure I'm qualified to be in a Roland class lol but good to know he offers it. I thought he was strictly NVGs
Like · Reply · 1 · July 10 at 2:48pm
Chad Halvorson Check with Chappy from RCS. He's still doing some classes through LMS Defense still.
Unlike · Reply · 3 · July 10 at 4:50pm
Drew Yersin John Chapman offer any input? When you get a moment
Like · Reply · July 10 at 5:27pm
Matt Prime I know he has multiple irons in the fire at the moment
Like · Reply · 1 · July 10 at 5:31pm
Drew Yersin Figured it couldn't hurt to ask but I can delete the comment if out of place
Like · Reply · July 10 at 5:32pm
Matt Prime Oh no issues at all - I just wish I could say more...
Like · Reply · July 10 at 5:33pm
Drew Yersin You mods and your inside knowledge.
Like · Reply · 1 · July 10 at 5:33pm
Matt Prime No this is beyond moderator
Like · Reply · July 10 at 5:35pm
Drew Yersin Wow.
Like · Reply · July 10 at 5:35pm
Matt Levi Drew Yersin sign up for a LMS Carbine class near you with him. If you are up to speed he can probably give you some tips in person.
Like · Reply · July 10 at 5:38pm
Drew Yersin I'll have to look at the schedule
Like · Reply · July 10 at 5:41pm
Drew Yersin I'll pick fishers brain in two weeks as well
Like · Reply · 2 · July 10 at 5:41pm
John Chapman Hi Drew. Sorry, one armed wallpaper hanger over here. I don't teach the skill level NVG course any longer, just because of time constraints. I'd strongly recommend you start with a Presscheck NVG skills level course and go from there. Vis lasers you can work on in any carbine course with a low light component.
Unlike · Reply · 3 · July 10 at 10:04pm
Drew Yersin Thanks for weighing in. Good luck with all the wallpaper
Like · Reply · July 10 at 10:06pm
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Duke Krieger I have an X400 on a carbine. If I can remember offset with an RDS, I can do the same for the X400. Is it #GoToWarReady? I have no idea. Is it #KillAnythingThatMovesOnTheFarm? Pew Pew, thumper and Bambi. Pew pew.
Like · Reply · 5 · July 10 at 5:37pm
Drew Yersin I considered that especially with a unity tactical shroud and tape switch
Like · Reply · July 10 at 5:38pm
Duke Krieger Nothing that fancy; thumb activated, secured with aluminum foil shim and Loctite
Like · Reply · July 10 at 5:57pm
Lyle Benjamin It is Surefire. It should be GTG. The only ?? I have is if the laser emitter will sit so high that it will occlude the red dot.
Like · Reply · July 26 at 10:42pm
Is there any application for a Visible laser only, on a home defense / truck / couch carbine? Im specifically asking about carbines in this case.
Assume the the carbine already has an Aimpoint, SF light, and the shooter is reasonably squared away.
...See More
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11Ike Stephens, Lee Gullett and 9 others
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Caleb Chitty Bill Blowers speaks of running lasers as backup a lot
Unlike · Reply · 2 · July 2 at 6:22pm
William Petty Yes
Like · Reply · 1 · July 2 at 6:22pm
Drew Yersin Can you expound and give me scenarios and options? But ik its a holiday and your busy so no worries
Like · Reply · July 2 at 6:24pm
William Petty Running a vis is like cheating. And if I'm trying to clear my own house with family I'll take anything I can get especially if I just woke up. Adverse shooting platforms. Dudes who dot have extensive FoF tend to threat orient anyways.
Unlike · Reply · 5 · July 2 at 6:34pm
Drew Yersin Thanks for the feedback. What product is best suited?
Like · Reply · July 2 at 6:35pm
William Petty Drew Yersin anything that's quality gonna hold a true zero. It's not cheap.
Like · Reply · 4 · July 2 at 6:36pm
Drew Yersin Thats what I'm seeing, its practically worth buying IR capable devices just in case that ever gets added to the stable
Like · Reply · 2 · July 2 at 6:36pm
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Bran Turner Wasn't Fisher talking about lasers for geezers with shitty eyes too?
Like · Reply · 9 · July 2 at 6:23pm
Drew Yersin Right but bill is already getting the NVGs so he "needs" a laserIm wondering if the juice is worth squeeze over MBUS pros
Like · Reply · July 2 at 6:23pm
Bran Turner Vis laser with NODs seems counterproductive
Like · Reply · 1 · July 2 at 6:25pm
Drew Yersin Right I'm saying he's running an IR laser already so the VIS laser is just a bonus. If he didn't need IR lasers would he still be running a laser as a back up
Like · Reply · July 2 at 6:26pm
Bran Turner Intredasting. I yield to Matt's post below this then...
Unlike · Reply · 1 · July 2 at 6:28pm
Bran Turner FWIW, I never used a vis device during .mil CQB/urban.
Like · Reply · July 2 at 6:31pm
Drew Yersin me either, my gut says that its not worth it between cost and training to get proficient but i aint the brightest bulb in the pack
Like · Reply · July 2 at 6:32pm
Bran Turner Me thinks the same.
Like · Reply · July 2 at 6:34pm
Lyle Benjamin Training is not different than using the RDS, other than toggling the switch. A little dry practice does wonders. The cost may be a factor. Depends on where you are on the need/want/ training scatterplot.
Like · Reply · July 3 at 9:32am
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Matt Prime Rds > irons > vis laser for an untrained person for HD
Unlike · Reply · 5 · July 2 at 6:25pm
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Drew Yersin What defines trained? Trained in lasers or trained in rifles?
Like · Reply · 1 · July 2 at 6:26pm
Matt Prime All of the above.
Like · Reply · 1 · July 2 at 6:27pm
Drew Yersin Right so this dude has rifle training, but you have to buy a laser to train/practice right? So is what it brings to a table valuable enough to justify the extra cost / training? Lets assume this dude is willing to "learn" the laser
Like · Reply · July 2 at 6:29pm
Matt Prime For me, vis laser is a secondary. My primary is rds.
For work, vis laser provides additional value that isn't present for home defense.
Unlike · Reply · 3 · July 2 at 6:35pm
Drew Yersin gotcha
Like · Reply · July 2 at 6:35pm
Matt Wicks Matt, any issue with civ lasers getting washed out with a 500 or 1k lumen weapon light?
Unlike · Reply · 2 · July 2 at 6:38pm
Matt Prime I do not know... mine might be non-civ
Like · Reply · July 2 at 6:39pm
Matt Wicks Petty? Is there a vis laser/bright light issue to think about if one does not have access to the military grade aiming lasers?
Like · Reply · 1 · July 2 at 6:41pm · Edited
Stanislaus Katczinsky As a data point, my X400U's light does not wash out the green laser for my eyes under low-light conditions, even at less than 1 yard on white interior walls.
The laser is a 5 mW output, which is the maximum allowed for civilians on the visible spectru...See More
Like · Reply · 1 · July 2 at 6:50pm · Edited
William Petty Matt Wicks I have a civi dbal green viz and does not wash out.
Like · Reply · 8 · July 2 at 7:17pm
Matt Wicks Good to know, thanks!
Like · Reply · 2 · July 2 at 7:17pm
Duane Liptak The FDA laser rules allow civilian 3b for vis since the involuntary blink reflex will close your eye before damage can occur. Class 1 only for IR, since the blink reflex isn't there in non-visible wavelengths. So, IR laser output is the only thing affected by "the rules" for civilians.
Like · Reply · 2 · July 2 at 11:22pm
Drew Yersin Good to know Thanks
Like · Reply · July 2 at 11:29pm
Jacob Carrow Link to civi dbal ?... is it viz only or IR too?
Like · Reply · July 7 at 9:39pm
Drew Yersin Go to TNVC and look under civilian legal lasers. It's the dbal a3 with green laser, ir pointer and ir illuminator
Like · Reply · 1 · July 7 at 10:11pm
Neyene Minded Jacob Carrow I have a new A3 available if interested
Like · Reply · July 10 at 1:58am
Tim Braginton For reference I have a P3 fury and an older red Civvy DBAL. Even on light colored walls at low power setting the laser is still visible.
My .02 the laser is not a replacement for training or an optic but it provides a fairly idiot proof backup. Spend the money for a good one up front you won't regret it
Like · Reply · 2 · July 10 at 2:03pm
Jacob Carrow Neyene Minded don't have the funds currently appreciate the offer bro
Like · Reply · July 10 at 2:45pm
Neyene Minded Jacob Carrow
Like · Reply · July 10 at 3:09pm
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Matt Wicks Doesn't a vis laser lose most of it's appeal when 1.) You're not working as part of a team; and 2.) You're not using night vision and you've got room for irons?
Unlike · Reply · 2 · July 2 at 6:33pm
William Petty I don't think so.
Like · Reply · 2 · July 2 at 6:35pm
Tim Braginton I think the laser is cheap (relatively) insurance that if Murphy shows up piss drunk with his friends you're still covered.
Like · Reply · July 10 at 7:25pm
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Colton Harrill Would there be any situation a vis laser would be desirable in a civilian setting that wouldn't be done better by conventional sighting methods?
Like · Reply · July 2 at 6:41pm
Troy D-Man As mentioned for people with crappy eyes, i dont always put my glasses within reach when i go to sleep. My vision is crappy enough that i would spend a good deal of time trying to find my front sight if i wasnt point shooting at room distance. If i had...See More
Like · Reply · 1 · July 2 at 7:05pm · Edited
Henry Alviar Also what if you lose or break glasses in a defense situation? My vision is shit, in a self defense scenario it is always nagging the back of my mind.
Like · Reply · July 3 at 8:45pm
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Jon Canipe What's faster, flipping up your irons and getting a sight picture, or hitting that huge rubber button my hand is beside anyways?
I like the vis laser as a back up to an optic, provided you have one bright enough. Aside from the ease of activation, it ...See More
Like · Reply · 17 · July 2 at 7:13pm · Edited
Drew Yersin So MAWL civilian version is worth the wait and just not use the IR till nvg becomes a thing for him?
Like · Reply · 1 · July 2 at 7:23pm
Jon Canipe Yeah, I'd say.
I have no experience with non-dual output lasers since the SOPMOD 1 CVL.
Unlike · Reply · 2 · July 2 at 7:27pm
Drew Yersin Thanks Jon
Like · Reply · July 2 at 7:50pm
Drew Yersin Matt I can't tag you but that made me laugh
Like · Reply · July 2 at 9:44pm
Marco Calderon Jon Canipe could you expand a little on why the ATPIAL-C is bad? With a $1300 price tag I would have thought they were pretty solid, and TNVC was showcasing them for a while. Just curious about your experience.
Like · Reply · July 4 at 12:11am
Jon Canipe The output is weak and the IR flood is not adjustable.
I prefer the ATPIAL to the DBAL from an ergonomic standpoint, and the UHP LA-5 is the best laser that has ever been fielded. The civilian one is weak sauce, and the vis laser is borderline useless just under interior lights in common household rooms.
Like · Reply · 2 · July 4 at 12:22am
Marco Calderon Thanks - much appreciated!
Like · Reply · July 4 at 12:24am
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Bill Blowers Smart dude^. My laser is always on in either Vis or IR mode, by that I mean ready to work with the button. Daylight it is backup to the optic, low light it is backup to the optic if I'm running white light. Gas Mask - Vislaser is primary, optic is bac...See More
Unlike · Reply · 22 · July 3 at 10:19am · Edited
William Petty Yep.
Like · Reply · July 2 at 7:27pm
Drew Yersin So if you guys weren't running NVGs you would still opt to have a VIS laser?
Like · Reply · 1 · July 2 at 7:40pm
William Petty i would / do. Can't speak for buffalo bill.
Like · Reply · 2 · July 2 at 8:19pm
Bill Blowers Ditto
Like · Reply · 3 · July 2 at 8:57pm
Drew Yersin Thanks guys.
Like · Reply · July 2 at 8:57pm
Lyle Benjamin Preach it Bill! Vis lasers are the future.
Like · Reply · 1 · July 3 at 9:26am
Andrew Moon Bill Blowers
In regards to your comment about not having irons, was it the irons you were referring to as obsolete? If so, are you meaning because thelaser is quicker?
Like · Reply · July 26 at 1:49pm
Bill Blowers Yes.
Like · Reply · 1 · July 26 at 1:51pm
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Drew Yersin Alright thanks everyone. The message I'm getting is that the juice is worth squeeze if you get training and you might as well buy a IR capable device such as the MAWL, or dbal D2?
Like · Reply · July 2 at 7:26pm
Caleb Chitty The DBAL-A3 is the latest
Like · Reply · July 2 at 7:28pm
Josh Toole Super shitty picture but that's a fury and a DBAL-A3 civi version. Green vis laser shows up like a champ but the picture makes it look dull.
Unlike · Reply · 1 · July 2 at 10:12pm · Edited
Drew Yersin Thanks josh
Like · Reply · July 2 at 8:39pm
Josh Toole No problem.
Slight edit it's a DBAL A3
Like · Reply · July 2 at 10:12pm · Edited
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Duane Liptak Just for the record, before someone jumps in and says, "but you all don't like vis lasers for pistols", on a carbine, if the dot goes out, you still have a tube that puts your eye where is needs to be to find the "spot". If the glass is occluded or bro...See More
Unlike · Reply · 6 · July 2 at 11:29pm
Drew Yersin Thanks for clarifying that, I knew there was a reason buy wasn't sure what it was
Like · Reply · July 2 at 11:30pm
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Jon Canipe Only reason I don't have one on every pistol is even if you get one of the semi-decent pistol light/laser combos they're huge and their holster options usually suck. It's not a space constraint on most rifles.
Unlike · Reply · 8 · July 2 at 11:38pm
Chad Swartout Can someone recommend a good via laser
Like · Reply · July 3 at 10:29pm
Caleb Chitty DBAL-I2 Is the cheapest rifle model.
Like · Reply · July 4 at 12:40am
Bill Blowers Just Vis laser, OTAL is cheapest.
Like · Reply · July 10 at 1:13am
Aaron Trevino So Bill, OTAL classic, OTAL-A or OTAL Class 1? For patrol use with that limited budget being a concern.
Like · Reply · 1 · July 10 at 3:15pm · Edited
Shelby Edward Good question
Like · Reply · 1 · July 10 at 3:06pm
Bill Blowers Matt Prime has been beating a version up on patrol, he probably has better insight
Like · Reply · July 10 at 7:18pm
Matt Prime I have a green restricted OTAL-A. It has been a great addition to my rifle. Multiple classes (including DARC Lectc) and patrol
Like · Reply · 1 · July 10 at 7:20pm · Edited
Caleb Chitty Restricted means it has an IR laser also right?
Like · Reply · July 10 at 7:35pm
Matt Prime No, it has a greater output
Like · Reply · July 10 at 7:43pm
Caleb Chitty All I see on the website is item #9052 with the Class IIIAlaser, I must be missing something. Only one that's on TNVC as well
Like · Reply · July 10 at 7:59pm
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Steve Fisher Vis laser is also good and usefull in
Bad weather last years low light carbine class Mike Martin was at
One student had and myself so much water. On on our optics I went over to him, flipped his vis laser on. And showed him how to use it as primary aiming unit ...See More
Unlike · Reply · 9 · July 10 at 12:56am
Lee Gullett For the vis laser proponents, within civvie use do you find its worth it to upgrade to the green laser or will red fit the mission well enough within 50 yards?
Unlike · Reply · 1 · July 10 at 2:28pm
Aaron Trevino Curious about this as well. Looking at the OTAL Classic vs OTAL-A vs OTAL class 1, since that's the range of my budget.
Like · Reply · 1 · July 10 at 2:54pm
Jim Santoro Given that the current crop of green emitters aren't the relatively fragile, temp-sensitive things of just a few years ago...if you can get green, but get red, you're fucked in the head.
The green used is around 532nm (+/-15nm), which is the wavelengt...See More
Unlike · Reply · 4 · July 10 at 5:11pm · Edited
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Drew Yersin And who are the go to teachers for shooting lasers? Or which classes by teacher? I'm guessing most any low light course??
Like · Reply · July 10 at 2:46pm
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Matt Prime Roland is one.
Like · Reply · 1 · July 10 at 2:47pm
Drew Yersin I'm not sure I'm qualified to be in a Roland class lol but good to know he offers it. I thought he was strictly NVGs
Like · Reply · 1 · July 10 at 2:48pm
Chad Halvorson Check with Chappy from RCS. He's still doing some classes through LMS Defense still.
Unlike · Reply · 3 · July 10 at 4:50pm
Drew Yersin John Chapman offer any input? When you get a moment
Like · Reply · July 10 at 5:27pm
Matt Prime I know he has multiple irons in the fire at the moment
Like · Reply · 1 · July 10 at 5:31pm
Drew Yersin Figured it couldn't hurt to ask but I can delete the comment if out of place
Like · Reply · July 10 at 5:32pm
Matt Prime Oh no issues at all - I just wish I could say more...
Like · Reply · July 10 at 5:33pm
Drew Yersin You mods and your inside knowledge.
Like · Reply · 1 · July 10 at 5:33pm
Matt Prime No this is beyond moderator
Like · Reply · July 10 at 5:35pm
Drew Yersin Wow.
Like · Reply · July 10 at 5:35pm
Matt Levi Drew Yersin sign up for a LMS Carbine class near you with him. If you are up to speed he can probably give you some tips in person.
Like · Reply · July 10 at 5:38pm
Drew Yersin I'll have to look at the schedule
Like · Reply · July 10 at 5:41pm
Drew Yersin I'll pick fishers brain in two weeks as well
Like · Reply · 2 · July 10 at 5:41pm
John Chapman Hi Drew. Sorry, one armed wallpaper hanger over here. I don't teach the skill level NVG course any longer, just because of time constraints. I'd strongly recommend you start with a Presscheck NVG skills level course and go from there. Vis lasers you can work on in any carbine course with a low light component.
Unlike · Reply · 3 · July 10 at 10:04pm
Drew Yersin Thanks for weighing in. Good luck with all the wallpaper
Like · Reply · July 10 at 10:06pm
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Duke Krieger I have an X400 on a carbine. If I can remember offset with an RDS, I can do the same for the X400. Is it #GoToWarReady? I have no idea. Is it #KillAnythingThatMovesOnTheFarm? Pew Pew, thumper and Bambi. Pew pew.
Like · Reply · 5 · July 10 at 5:37pm
Drew Yersin I considered that especially with a unity tactical shroud and tape switch
Like · Reply · July 10 at 5:38pm
Duke Krieger Nothing that fancy; thumb activated, secured with aluminum foil shim and Loctite
Like · Reply · July 10 at 5:57pm
Lyle Benjamin It is Surefire. It should be GTG. The only ?? I have is if the laser emitter will sit so high that it will occlude the red dot.
Like · Reply · July 26 at 10:42pm