Video, who does it?

Dr. No

Dr. No

Regular Member
Our team has six helmet mounted cameras assigned to guys. We run them on all operations, though call outs tend to be sporadic lest we run out of space on the eight hour call out. We do run continuous video from our armor on those calls.

We have tactical medics with us on all ops. We will have them interview anyone detained on a search warrant on video to prevent later bs claims.

We also video any damage to the structure done by us, as well as a walk through of the entire place. The next time we go to hit it we have a pretty good idea if what it looks like. This also prevents bs claims that we ransacked the place and destroyed their 4k TV.

We routinely review video for aar debrief purposes. They have proven key in several prosecutions so far.

An interesting side effect is that we don't "mother fucker" everyone anymore. Things are much more professional and it keeps the overall demeanor calmer.

Our sister team only runs video from outside.

What do y'all do and why?
 
Fatboy

Fatboy

Established
Bumping this up because I'm interested in getting a helmet camera for training. What kind of cameras is your team using, and what would you suggest differently after using them?
 
IEDmagnet

IEDmagnet

Amateur
We run a BWC on every officer, for the entirety of the call out, search warrant, etc etc. They are chest mounted.


Sent from my iPhone using rocks and sticks.
 
Dr. No

Dr. No

Regular Member
We have been using Contours as we liked the profile and they were big button easy. They suck in low light.

Recently we have been using the pivothead glasses and I believe they are slated to replace the contours when they go tits up.

The pivotheads are much better quality and have excellent night vision/low light capability. Downside to this is the 'good night vision' is seen as a source of contention for guys ... what if I smoke a dude because he comes out with a shiny black object but on the video it's very obvious it's not a firearm? Or what if I miss someone doing something because it's not well lit but the camera can see it ... we have configured the pivotheads we have to more naturally replicate the level of light we see.

Other downsides to glasses are when they fog up and you can't do anything but rip them off and put them in a pouch? No video... The button to turn them on is small and takes some focus to hit.

Also, they aren't Oakleys.

A lot of other teams (when we tell them we video) are very negative about it. They don't want to 'disclose tactics' etc. It really hasn't been an issue for us, and we've used the video for several convictions in court.
 
S

simojo

Newbie
Mobius Action Cam

BLUF: For training purposes and some low intensity situations where a 3x-5x zoom capability (both daylight and IR) is desired in a ~$100 package where the end user can easily and cheaply (15 min & $15) replace a lens if needed (ie cracked lens from SIMS hit).

5efbe5a1-dede-4a91-8bea-c684a13c9564_zpsu2ra6izz.jpg

DIY mount on 16" BCM w/ 4-12x50 Leupold for reference.

I've looked at most all COTS gun mount and helmet cameras and most don't zoom and the only one that does sucks at night. I'll probably get my ass handed to me, but I came across this being used by some airsoft guys. Upon looking into it, the RC drone guys really like them for their ability to survive multiple crashes, so hopefully that outweighs the airsoft ding.

It ships with the standard wide angle lens similar to a GoPro or Contour, but there are several lens available (Amazon Prime) that allow for a zoom setup (25mm day lens= ~5x zoom or 16mm IR lens= ~3x zoom). Take out 3 screws and the lens is changed easily; it takes longer to refocus than change the lens.


I'm out of my lane and precariously close to the cliff so I'll STFU and let you guys decide if it has viable uses.
 
Fatboy

Fatboy

Established
Thanks for the replies. I really couldn't use a camera for anything other then training just yet due to wiretap considerations when recording audio to go with the video. We are generally good with video, no audio on a job.
 
Bill Blowers

Bill Blowers

Sausage Six Actual
VIP
Yes, all your video is subject to PDR. As such, interior filming of someone's house has a high expectation of privacy. Meeting requirements of the PDR while maintaining constitutional rights of citizens is highly problematic. When in doubt, the constitution trumps everything, so if there is no video, there is no PDR.
 
Lobsterclaw207

Lobsterclaw207

Regular Member
Bill Blowers said:
Yes, all your video is subject to PDR. As such, interior filming of someone's house has a high expectation of privacy. Meeting requirements of the PDR while maintaining constitutional rights of citizens is highly problematic. When in doubt, the constitution trumps everything, so if there is no video, there is no PDR.
Click to expand...

Bill, if you don't mind educating me, are most of your operations done pursuant to a search warrant? For us, even with barricaded subjects, someone somewhere is working on the SW while the perimeter is being formed, etc. Even though we'd be good with exigent circumstances exception and the like, everybody seems to like the SW as a catchall for whatever we end up doing. Same with arrest warrants for barricaded persons, even if they are "just" suicidal and their "crime" is failure to submit to arrest. (That being said I agree with not filming inside, maybe it isn't even the suspect's house and now the interior of the victim's bedroom is subject to discovery/public release?) I totally get if you guys aren't filming interior as a choice, vs. feeling prohibited from doing so.


For us, we don't use any cameras, patrol cruisers included. I have a helmet camera for training and sometimes we'll position GoPro's inside a house to critique entries and stuff, but we've never felt the need to film more than that on operations.


If I recall from NTOA Advanced SWAT, Pittsburgh PD has one person filming from the BearCat or wherever, exterior only as well.
 
Bill Blowers

Bill Blowers

Sausage Six Actual
VIP
We do everything off of Search Warrant, but the warrant only covers certain areas to be searched and certain items to be seized. We obviously search everywhere for humans to ensure it is safe to conduct the detailed search for evidence of the crime. As a result, a body worn camera will "see" things that are not necessarily covered by the search warrant. This could include personal effects and items of the subjects living within, and some of them may not be the subject of the investigation. Which means they are innocent third parties (I know....)

So along comes dude with a PDR, in my state there are guys who have created businesses doing nothing but PDR's in the hopes that the agency doesn't comply. The person filing the PDR is granted substantial monetary payment from the agency for non-compliance. So these groups scour and search and PDR just hoping the agency cannot or does not comply because they want the cash. They have no specific interest in the case, they just want the money.

So now comes ACLU, "Why are you giving video of this innocent persons residence to Joe Shit the PDR man?", here is a lawsuit on behalf of my client. We could edit/redact the video, but like everyone we are short staffed and paying overtime to officers is not cost affective. If we don't have video to provide, we are not violating the PDR and thus are not subject to monetary penalties.

So we don't video the interior. And I'm glad about that.
 
Fatboy

Fatboy

Established
It makes sense from that standpoint. There isn't an easy way around the filming of someone's interior residence being released under FOIA.
 
Dr. No

Dr. No

Regular Member
Lobsterclaw207 said:
For us, we don't use any cameras, patrol cruisers included. I have a helmet camera for training and sometimes we'll position GoPro's inside a house to critique entries and stuff, but we've never felt the need to film more than that on operations.
Click to expand...

It still boggles my mind that in 2016 there are agencies that still don't have/use patrol car cameras.
 
Lobsterclaw207

Lobsterclaw207

Regular Member
Bill Blowers said:
Why? We don't have them or body cameras. Same issue with PDR in my state.
Click to expand...

We love it, and our prosecutors agree. There are nearby agencies that have cruiser cameras, and often they raise more questions or doubt in run of the mill trials. It also creates a climate of "if the camera didn't see it, it didn't happen". If the camera malfunctions, the entire trial becomes about the technology and not about the facts of the case. We had a pursuit that turned into a fatal crash when the suspect wrecked.... the deputy's cruiser camera malfunctioned at some point and it was discovered when they tried to retrieve the video of the chase. We had a hell of a time explaining that mechanical things can break... against allegations that we tampered or broke the camera on purpose to avoid releasing the video. That was when we stopped putting cameras in new cruisers.

I feel the over proliferation of cameras takes away from the officer's sworn word/reports. If what I write in my report isn't good enough, why not just equip cameras on every possible surface and play the video in court and let the judge decide? No report needed.

We also don't get so many complaints that we'd need cameras to defend ourselves. I realize that isn't true of everywhere, but when our admin approached the District Attorney (Republican) about getting body cameras, she asked why we would ever want or need them, because she didn't see the point from her perspective. She prosecutes cases from the nearby agencies who do have cruiser cameras, and she told us she wished they'd get rid of theirs.

The expense is another beef I have with cameras. Not so much a big deal for SWAT where you only need a few, but for patrol the cost is astronomically high to me. Our quote was something like $250,000 - $300,000 a year for ~50 deputies, which included hardware and data storage but NOT employee time for censoring, managing the data, approving and reviewing video, creating it for Freedom of Information requests... in addition to the additional man hours writing reports would take because now there is a video of the incident to review and make sure the written report jives. In ADDITION to the burning video to discs and getting it to the DA, who THEN has to have someone review it on their end. Soon we're talking real time, and time costs $$$. That is money I'd rather see go elsewhere than cameras to appease the BLM people and Catch-A-Cop people.


Sorry if this is long. Drinking coffee and kinda rambling. Policing is regional apparently!
 
Tropleo

Tropleo

Member
Anybody have time with the MOHOC? Looking at getting cameras more involved in our team for training purposes and this caught my eye. Apparently they are also coming out with an IR capable unit as well.
 
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