Upgrading Mixed Duty Grade/Non Duty Grade Rifle

Gentlemen I am looking to upgrade my Rifle to as fully duty grade as can be. Currently the upper is a SOLGW with Magpul MOE SL handguards and MBUS. To finish the upper i plan on adding an aimpoint PRO and change the BUS to a full steel one. Is the handguard needed to be changed as Magpul is the minimum?

My lower is a old DPMS that is in spec. The LPK is GI. All controls are stock. I want to swap to an Ambidextrous Safety as having cerebral palsy hampers safety engagement being quick and efficient. Is that something needed or is it adding a weak link that could break and instead I should train on that.

I will be swapping the MOE stock as well to something with a QD mount and better fit for me. Sling is a magpul ms3 should be changed as well I assume?
 

Grizzly

Regular Member
The big question is what do you want the rifle to do for you? The adage mission dictates gear is very relevant. Define what you want your rifle to do, figure out the equipment it takes to support that goal and then pick from quality equipment.

What kind of training do you have? If you haven't had much I think you'd be well served to take the money you would spend on magpul pro sites, a new rail and new sling and put it toward a reputable carbine class and ammo. Running your gun for a few days will highlight what equipment works for you and what doesn't. The aimpoint pro or other aimpoint sight is an easy yes though so roll with that. If the lower has proven reliable through lots of rounds put the ambi safety on and rock on out.

Just some sample questions.
Rail upgrade - Why? What is X rail going to do for your goal that the MOE SL doesn't?
Sights - Have you seen a problem with the magpul MBUS that switching to metal would fix?
 
Grizzly,

The Rifle will be a Primary defensive arm and used for training to improve on that. I am not LEO and there is little to no odds on being called into having to use it in anger...barring a Canadian invasion. Why Duty grade, because if you will have one rifle why not have it be the best it can be right?

I've done several short stints alongside LEOs and .mil guys locally but nothing in a formal class yet. In those I was using a Kalashnikov so I'll be having to retrain to operate the AR. Ammowise is it worth the extra savings to use brass case vs steel? I want to say yes.

The lower needs some more rounds. I have thought about using the DPMS lower as a secondary build and pinning on a SOLGW full lower. If reading the thread on the Facebook group this would then make a full Duty Grade?

I'm Set on a Aimpoint. Ambi safety on that who is a good option on that?

Rail. I currently have on the left side a QD mount with plans to place the Flashlight mount on the far front right. You have me on the X rail vs SL.
Sights- I would not mind a finer sight picture but then these are BUS and Aimpoint hardly will go down. I suspect that metal would be more about aesthetics rather then function in that manner.
 

MrMurphy

Regular Member
While I prefer metal BUIS, I've had the MBUS front and rear on my duty rifle for over a year. I bought it in a hurry from a bro when the LE-vs-badguys situation locally heated up very quickly and having more than a .45 and 12ga at work was indicated and I couldn't wait to save up more funds.

After a year of being bashed around in the vertical rack, front seat, trunk and everywhere else of a Tahoe, Crown Vic or Explorer, the MBUS have held up well (I checked zero the other day). For their intended purpose, they do fine, especially in your case where the money saved can go to a class.

For mounting just a light, nothing wrong with the Magpul handguards. Our issued duty rifles are 6920s with IWC light mounts on the front sight and basic Colt round handguards. They shoot just fine. While having a FF tube can eliminate some issues, they also add weight. Weight is definitely a thing on patrol and even more so if you have any medical condition. Added weight can help steady a rifle, but it will also tire your ass out in a hurry. Side note when it's raining and 35 F outside and you didn't bring gloves a metal handguard gets chilly real fucking quick on a stakeout.

If you HAVE to go freefloat I'd suggest the very lightweight M-Lok types.

My personal duty rifle is a 16" BCM upper, MI FF tube (Troy type with all the holes) and a S&W lower, since when the gun was built BCM wasn't selling lowers yet. BCM Gunfighter grip, CTR stock, and a PRO (had a H-1 on it, it became an issue with armor). It's got around 6500 rounds through it before I got it and another 400-500 since.
 

Grizzly

Regular Member
Grizzly,

The Rifle will be a Primary defensive arm and used for training to improve on that. I am not LEO and there is little to no odds on being called into having to use it in anger...barring a Canadian invasion. Why Duty grade, because if you will have one rifle why not have it be the best it can be right?

I've done several short stints alongside LEOs and .mil guys locally but nothing in a formal class yet. In those I was using a Kalashnikov so I'll be having to retrain to operate the AR. Ammowise is it worth the extra savings to use brass case vs steel? I want to say yes.

The lower needs some more rounds. I have thought about using the DPMS lower as a secondary build and pinning on a SOLGW full lower. If reading the thread on the Facebook group this would then make a full Duty Grade?

I'm Set on a Aimpoint. Ambi safety on that who is a good option on that?

Rail. I currently have on the left side a QD mount with plans to place the Flashlight mount on the far front right. You have me on the X rail vs SL.
Sights- I would not mind a finer sight picture but then these are BUS and Aimpoint hardly will go down. I suspect that metal would be more about aesthetics rather then function in that manner.

First off I'm not an expert compared to many of the very smart people around here. But my thoughts on what you are looking for is this.

First, set up a basic rifle. From all I've heard SOLGW is good to go on quality but double check the upper and BCG. there are numerous threads about checking for the big things (feed ramps, staked gas key, extractor springs etc etc). Then double check the lower to the same standards (buffer, spring, fitment etc). I don't know much about ambi safeties so I'll skip that question.

Once everything looks good on the inspection add what you need to setup a defensive carbine. To me that would be:
A good light with at least 500 lumen in a mount that keeps it close to the rifle. If the light is much under $100 it probably isn't that great of quality. I'd say streamlight or surefire here.
Any dot in the aimpoint family.
A two point sling.
10 good GI steel mags or pmags (let the religious debate begin).
Magpul MBUS or MBUS pro.

Now take that simple rifle to a class that is from a vetted instructor. The P&S network has great info on this. Don't go to the gun show and sign up for a class from a "navy seal". Get a vetted and reputable instructor. Your local guys might be great. Pat Mac, Fisher, DARC etc ARE great. Don't skimp on your class anymore than you'd go with a sightmark red dot instead of an aimpoint to bet your life on. Bring a notebook.

Now after the class you will have a very good idea of what changes you want on the rifle. Chances are they won't be much. Depending on your arm length getting a rail that goes farther down the rifle might be worth the money to you and maybe it won't. But you'll know AFTER the class what works for you and what doesn't.

IF (IF IF IF) you have the money to do a class (ammo included) AND buy another lower you might be well served to pick up a BCM, SOLGW, Scionics *SP* or other quality lower to have as a backup for class in case your existing one goes tits up.

As for ammo I've got thousands of rounds of steel through mine and its been fine. Odds are good it will hurt you if the class you go to stretches out past 200 yards. Wolf (even gold) simply isn't made to hold the same accuracy standards as match grade ammo. Zero your rifle with your self defense ammo. Be sure the rifle feeds well (100+ rounds ) of your self defense ammo. Then if you do the class with mostly steel you might want to confirm zero at distance with the steel ammo and rezero the rifle with steel for the class if needed. Then be sure and rezero with the good stuff.
 
Grizzly,

Rifle should be good to go just need to add the mount for the light. I have an Eleztta ZFL and just need to add that mounted then done excepting the Aimpoint.

Who of the Recommended classes does smaller group sizes for their into classes? I assume since I have no class certs behind my name I'd be starting off in a low class to establish a baseline?

Ammo I'd like to stick to brass and just buy thoughtfully.
 

Longeye

Established
There is two broad parallel paths that are duty grade. Patrol and SWAT.

Patrol is pretty well what you already have or want. Solid quality AR, built to current milspec and TDP (except in accessories), equipped with a RDS, 500 minimum lumen weapon light and a two point sling and 3-10 M2 Pmags.

A SWAT carbine will be the same but with the addition of a free float rail to support a multiple function aiming laser- MFAL. It may also feature an upgraded trigger.
Either category may be SBR, but the SWAT guns are more likely to be SBR.

Now with the broad overreaching generalization out of the way...

I recommend a stock with some form of rubber buttplate. MAGPUL CTR, MOE, STR or BCM Gunfighter, or B5 SOPMOD, etc.

The MOE SL is a great forend. Just grab a piece of M.lok rail for mounting your light on it. You can either use an Impact Weapons Components QD for your front sling attachment or the MAGPUL equivalent.

I strongly prefer the padded Viking Tactics sling, but the BFG Vickers is also a good option.

Colt sells an ambi safety that is solid. Unless you are left handed, or have an amputated thumb, I don't see a lot of need for ambi. You mentioned C. Palest. How does that interact with your current safety function?

The poly MAGPUL sights are just fine as backups.
Overall, I think you have a decent carbine already, and generally solid ideas for improvements.

Trading is the key.
 
Thanks Grizzly I'm digging into how to go about getting training while being affordable.

Longeye,

I'm for sure a Patrol set, though an SBR would not be out of the question in a future rifle. I have to check the lumens on the WML though. I'm adding mags a bit at a time. What is the thought on solid USGI mags?

I have thought about some horse trading to get up to a better sling.

Safety engagement is a bit harder to explain with text but in essence I can disengage but when I lower the weapon to reengage it I'm not able to push to flip it back. I can make a short vid on how it works.
 

Fatboy

Established
USGI mags with the light green follower and stamped "OK" on the bottom plate are good to go. I have several that are 10 years old or more with several Army deployments and Cop years attached to them. They haven't caused a failure to go bang yet. I would stake my life on their reliability when your back is up against it.
 

Longeye

Established
The short answer is: Mags are expendable items. When they give problems, smash them, toss them and move on.

USGI mags are fine. Using the upgraded MAGPUL follower is not a bad idea. If they drop free, feed lips are not worn or spread and pass the bump test they should be GTG.
Bump test: load a mag two thirds full, then holding the mag vertically, feed lips on top, slap the floorplate. If rounds jump out, that mag is on the way out. Either the spring is shot or the feed lips are worn or spreading.
Be prepared to be ruthless though. At one time, I went through 90 brand new Brownells USGI mags to get 6 that were serviceable. They had a bad batch early on. They were good about replacing them, but the take home lesson is to check new inventory for functionality.
Bravo Company and D&H are both solid brands of USGI mags in current production. If you are dealing with used mags, do not trust that the floorplate on the mag is the same one it came new with. The floorplate might say "OK" but the mag body is actually a LaBelle, Center Industries, or Sanchez. All of those are good USGI contractors.
Magpul Pmags and Tango Down ARC mags are both polymer options that are solid. I find the Magpul M2 to be the most compatible with all the different pouch options out there. I would not bother getting the window version.
I have 30 BCM USGI mags with Magpul followers waiting in a Speedball. Loaded up, that is 840 ready rounds. But the mags in my duty gear, weapons, and in practice rotation are all PMags.
 

Longeye

Established
On the safety question, you might try one of the Noveske 45° throw models. They are about 35$ on gun broker, and might help alot with your situation.
They call them a STS -Short Throw Safety.
 
Mags info noted.

I'm tapped on mod funds at the moment so I will have to hold on the safety and just adapt to what I have. I'm not a gunfighter nor a comp shooter so a few extra milseconds won't be affecting much.

Now for good news.

I now from great fortune have come into a Aimpoint PRO.

I have mounted it and just need now to get it zeroed. Is there any issues with the included mount for the rifle that warrant swapping it right away?
 

MrMurphy

Regular Member
While i prefer LaRue mounts, the issued mount does fine if youre not switching optics a bunch. I used the issued QRP on the M68, and have the issued mount on my PRO for my work gun until i get $$$ free for an LT129.
 
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