Training advantages to a RDO equipped pistol?

[Runcibleman]

For the record, I love the Walther PPQ, particularly in a 5" barrel model. I shoot it better than my other center-fire production pistols (so the .22 and revolvers are excluded here).

I haven't shot an RDO equipped pistol yet, but played around with two RMR equipped ones before, a Glock 19 and an S&W M&P.

The question is: How would I benefit, if at all, in terms of general handgun training by getting an RDO equipped pistol?

Also, I can't really afford to go down the custom $1500 milled Pimp-a-Glock route, but I like the look of both the Walther PPQ Q4-Tac and Q5 Match, and also the SIG P320 X-Five. Should I consider anything else in the production league?

 

[pointblank4445]

From a training aspect, it provides real-time feedback (even dryfire training) that you may not perceive with irons. The red dot shows you everything that you may not be aware that you're doing. Once you learn to work with the RD, it translates over into other guns too. The RDS handgun is indeed the future standard.

 

[Runcibleman]

Thanks! Any particular recommendation for a production, out of the box ready to mount an RDO handgun? I've obviously mentioned the the SIG P320 X-Five and the Walther PPQ options (Q4-Tac and Q5 Match).

 

[pointblank4445]

I like the Walther for the trigger aspect; and would have dove deep into the PPQ had the HK VP9 not been on the horizon. Still think the PPQ might have the better trigger.

Not much of a Sig fan so I'm biased.

 

[Matt Landfair]

FN 509T and Glock G45 - an RDS provides a great dryfire tool to magnify movement in the gun as you press the trigger.

 

[Arete]

I have used a RMR'd Glock with some of our people who struggle.

It very quickly and obviously shows them that that they are not missing due to sighting errors, but instead due to triggering errors.

Having this new insight makes them better at shooting with their non RDS pistols.

 

[ParaSpartan117]

As stated before, you can correct small errors you might not be able to see with irons. I hit steel at 200yds with my Glock 19 RMR and then hit it using my Iron sighted 43 by using the same technique. More precision and can be faster. And it is a nightsight.

 

[Runcibleman]

Okay, I'm sold! Now the only question is, what should I pick then between the Walther PPQ Q4-Tac and the Q5 Match? I usually shoot the 5" PPQ, so the Q5 is a better proxy to that, and neither the Q4-TAC or the Q5 can have rear sights with that plate removed for an RDO, so would I want a Q4-TAC just on the off chance that I some day move to a free state and then maybe get a suppressor? Thoughts?

 

[Runcibleman]

Argh.... decisions decisions....

I'm back at four options:

Walther PPQ Q4-Tac Classic (paddle mag release!)
Walther PPQ Q5 Match Classic (paddle!)
SIG P320 X-VTAC Rev.2 (https://www.sigsauer.com/store/p320-x-vtac.html)
FN 509 Tactical

I obviously know the Walther PPQ platform and like it. I have shot a P320 (not one of the X series) and found the trigger to be so good, I wanted to hate it for being good.

No clue about the FN 509 Tac. No one I know has one, no place within 50 miles of me has one for rent. I've heard good things though and fondled one in a gunstore. I like the ambi mag release on these. Almost as good as the paddle release on the PPQ.

 

[Yondering]

Argh.... decisions decisions....

The decision IMO should be based on what optic you'll be using, and that choice comes down to whether you'll be using it as a serious gun (carry, duty, whatever) or a range or game gun. If it's a serious gun, there are only a couple choices worth considering, with the Trijicon RMR at the top. (Maybe the new Trijicon SRS is there too, I don't know, but it's the same footprint as the RMR anyway.) The DPP and maybe the newish Acro are the others to consider.

If it's just for training, range, and competition use then other options like the Sig Romeo sight on the 320 or the various Vortex sights might be OK to get you into it. (Personally though I'd spend the money once on an RMR and be done with it.)

 

[Runcibleman]

The decision IMO should be based on what optic you'll be using, and that choice comes down to whether you'll be using it as a serious gun (carry, duty, whatever) or a range or game gun. If it's a serious gun, there are only a couple choices worth considering, with the Trijicon RMR at the top. (Maybe the new Trijicon SRS is there too, I don't know, but it's the same footprint as the RMR anyway.) The DPP and maybe the newish Acro are the others to consider.

I'm definitely going down the Trijicon SRO route. Maybe try the gold for Holosun 507C as well, but SRO for sure.

I want this gun to be, above all else, a training gun, exploring RDO's on a pistol and perfecting trigger control, etc.

 

[JLL2013]

Everyone was in love with the 509Tac for about 3 weeks; I haven't seen one since. I do think it has the best optics mounting system from the factory and comes very well equipped (magazines, recoil assemblies, etc).
The Walthers are a new darling of the B-8 punching club, don't forsee any issues with them and better shooters than I are in love with theirs.

I'd go with the 509 due to the execution of their optics mounting system. The aftermarket on both is about equal, potentially better on the 509.

 

[Runcibleman]

I'd go with the 509 due to the execution of their optics mounting system. The aftermarket on both is about equal, potentially better on the 509.

I take it then that even the stock 509 trigger is nothing to complain about then, right? I really do prefer keeping things stock, and would rather not spend $150 on an Apex. Of course the Walther trigger is the cat's pajamas in stock trigger world (which is why I have one already) but the Walther optics mounting method and the lack of a rear sight bothers me ever so slightly, even though I don't intend this RDO gun to be more than a training till, first and foremost.

 

[Yondering]

Co-witnessed irons are a big part of training with a red dot pistol; don't disregard that.

 

[Runcibleman]

Co-witnessed irons are a big part of training with a red dot pistol; don't disregard that.

Ah, that's a good point that I completely forgot! Well, that pretty much seals the deal! 509 Tactical, here I come!

Even with the SIG P320 X VTAC, for instance, I'd then have to buy a set of suppressor height sights, which would cost another $100 or so. I just don't see the disadvantage of the 509 now. So what if it's not a PPQ grade trigger? Neither is the Glock and people still shoot stock Glocks better than I can a trick 1911, so might as well learn with a good tool than fail to learn with the best tool, right?

 

[Yondering]

Agree. There's something to be said for training with a poor trigger as well, if your goal is to improve trigger control.

 

[Runcibleman]

Agree. There's something to be said for training with a poor trigger as well, if your goal is to improve trigger control.

Wise words, and reassuring words! Thank you!

 

[pointblank4445]

Agree. There's something to be said for training with a poor trigger as well, if your goal is to improve trigger control.

By "poor" you mean "stock" or by "poor" you mean Orange NYC Glock and "+" disconnector "poor"?

I can understand the theory like people who wear ankle weights and weighted vests for runs if they're looking for a challenge, but I wouldn't make it a wide-sweeping practice. And I get using "stock" triggers but by "poor" I think Glock NYC style 12 pounder...that just seems like a waste of time. Even a good trigger has a pull weight 2x that of the entire firearm it. Got a hard enough time mastering the pistol as it is with a well-outfitted gun with a pleasant trigger...

Reminds me of the movie "Tin Cup" (not great but some good moments)

Roy: Shot par on the back 9 with a 7 Iron...you ever shoot par with a 7 Iron?

David: [shrugs] Hell, Roy...it never occurred to me to try.

 

[Yondering]

I mean that if you use and master something like a stock Glock trigger in your training, it can improve your trigger control more than always practicing with a finely tuned 1911 trigger. Many people would consider something like a stock Glock trigger "poor" in comparison to the PPQ the OP is used to.

I also said "there's something to be said for it"; I did not say that's the only or best way to do it. There are some benefits, that is all.

 

[Runcibleman]

For the record, I meant poor as in how a stock Glock trigger is comparatively poor vs. the stock PPQ trigger. It's no mean trigger, the Glock, by any means, but it's also not too good.