Thoughts for an active shooter chest rig

#1
The recent church shooter has brought me back to an old idea I had let go a while back, the all inclusive grab and go chest rig. I️ mostly abandoned this idea due to things I️ had read on the internet, which weren’t 100% wrong but also neglected to take into account that the mission drives the gear train and while some ideas may be less than ideal in some regards, those same ideas are excellent in others. After the judicious application of some simple thought common sense, I’ve realized this old idea is actually pretty damn good.

The church shooter reiterated my idea that I️ need to have a way to quickly get into the fight with a long gun and appropriate gear; spare mags, hand gun, handheld light and knife. Seven years ago I️ wanted something that could do this and the Eagle Ind/SKD Chest rig fit this idea perfectly. This gives one the ability to throw on up to six rifle mags, a handgun, 2 spare pistol mags, folding knife and hand held light. All this in a light weight, secure, easy to don/doff package that can have you out the door in under 30 seconds.

As a firefighter and civilian, I’m not always in fighting gear, in fact I’m never in fighting gear. On my off days, depending on what I’m doing my attire is usually jeans and a t shirt or gym shorts and a t shirt and a pair of Vans. When someone is outside your house wrecking shit, there’s no time to kit up with a base belt and battle belt as I️ may not even be in pants with belt loops, not to mention that takes valuable time and my battle belt without base belt is no where as secure as my chest rig. The chest rig offers the ability to carry everything I️ need, securely, while wearing nothing more than gym shorts and a pair of shoes.

I️ used to keep this setup at hand until vest mounted holsters went out of style, and I️ absolutely understand why. The disadvantages are numerous and advantages limited, however, those disadvantages are, in my opinion, vastly outweighed by the pros in this very limited application.

The disadvantages being a slower, more awkward draw stroke as well as no ability to have a second line system. In a perfect world I️ would prefer to run a second line belt with my secondary weapon, 1 primary mag, 2 secondary mags and a light and knife on the belt for the ability to drop my chest rig or pc and still remain armed, however, a reaction to an active shooter will most likely involve only one or a few assailants and will be fast and violent, thus the lack of need to potentially ditch your first line and have a second line to remain armed.

The pros of this system are that you can get into the fight quicker with all the essentials. Vest mounted secondary arms can also be quicker or easier to access when working in a vehicle.




The picture is sort of a mock up of sorts as I️ don’t have a holster solution for the G19 yet. The G19 does not fit in the pocket very well (sits too deep, nothing solid to protect trigger) so I’ve decided to adapt an AIWB holster to fit in the pocket. I’m going to get in touch with JM Custom Kydex to see if he can brew me up one of his AIWB holsters for a G19 with X-300. I’ll sew some Velcro to the inside of the pocket and attach some on the outside of the holster to secure it in place. This will both offer safety as well as bringing the handgun up slightly farther to make it possible to achieve a better grip during draw.

As I said earlier, this setup has its drawbacks, however, in this limited application, I feel it’s a solid idea. I️t gives me the ability to grab my rifle, rig, trauma bag and be out the door in well under a minute.





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Sherlockanubis

Member
Network Support I
#3
The recent church shooter has brought me back to an old idea I had let go a while back, the all inclusive grab and go chest rig. I️ mostly abandoned this idea due to things I️ had read on the internet, which weren’t 100% wrong but also neglected to take into account that the mission drives the gear train and while some ideas may be less than ideal in some regards, those same ideas are excellent in others. After the judicious application of some simple thought common sense, I’ve realized this old idea is actually pretty damn good.

The church shooter reiterated my idea that I️ need to have a way to quickly get into the fight with a long gun and appropriate gear; spare mags, hand gun, handheld light and knife. Seven years ago I️ wanted something that could do this and the Eagle Ind/SKD Chest rig fit this idea perfectly. This gives one the ability to throw on up to six rifle mags, a handgun, 2 spare pistol mags, folding knife and hand held light. All this in a light weight, secure, easy to don/doff package that can have you out the door in under 30 seconds.

As a firefighter and civilian, I’m not always in fighting gear, in fact I’m never in fighting gear. On my off days, depending on what I’m doing my attire is usually jeans and a t shirt or gym shorts and a t shirt and a pair of Vans. When someone is outside your house wrecking shit, there’s no time to kit up with a base belt and battle belt as I️ may not even be in pants with belt loops, not to mention that takes valuable time and my battle belt without base belt is no where as secure as my chest rig. The chest rig offers the ability to carry everything I️ need, securely, while wearing nothing more than gym shorts and a pair of shoes.

I️ used to keep this setup at hand until vest mounted holsters went out of style, and I️ absolutely understand why. The disadvantages are numerous and advantages limited, however, those disadvantages are, in my opinion, vastly outweighed by the pros in this very limited application.

The disadvantages being a slower, more awkward draw stroke as well as no ability to have a second line system. In a perfect world I️ would prefer to run a second line belt with my secondary weapon, 1 primary mag, 2 secondary mags and a light and knife on the belt for the ability to drop my chest rig or pc and still remain armed, however, a reaction to an active shooter will most likely involve only one or a few assailants and will be fast and violent, thus the lack of need to potentially ditch your first line and have a second line to remain armed.

The pros of this system are that you can get into the fight quicker with all the essentials. Vest mounted secondary arms can also be quicker or easier to access when working in a vehicle.




The picture is sort of a mock up of sorts as I️ don’t have a holster solution for the G19 yet. The G19 does not fit in the pocket very well (sits too deep, nothing solid to protect trigger) so I’ve decided to adapt an AIWB holster to fit in the pocket. I’m going to get in touch with JM Custom Kydex to see if he can brew me up one of his AIWB holsters for a G19 with X-300. I’ll sew some Velcro to the inside of the pocket and attach some on the outside of the holster to secure it in place. This will both offer safety as well as bringing the handgun up slightly farther to make it possible to achieve a better grip during draw.

As I said earlier, this setup has its drawbacks, however, in this limited application, I feel it’s a solid idea. I️t gives me the ability to grab my rifle, rig, trauma bag and be out the door in well under a minute.





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This would allow you to have the G19 in a mag pouch while still being safe.
They also make one for a G19 with a x300u on it.

http://raven-concealment-systems1.mybigcommerce.com/vanguard-2-lanyard-kit/


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#4
Plates/plate carrier

If you’re going to throw something on and run into a fight, then plates should be a primary concern. You’re not bulletproof just because you have spare mags and a flashlight.
I’m aware, this is what I️ have right now. Plates and a carrier are in my near future. One of the reasons I’m strongly considering the First Spear/SKD STT carrier is its ability to be donned quickly. My budget thus far, though, has been mostly spent on training and ammunition.


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#5
This would allow you to have the G19 in a mag pouch while still being safe.
They also make one for a G19 with a x300u on it.

http://raven-concealment-systems1.mybigcommerce.com/vanguard-2-lanyard-kit/


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Thanks man, I️ had actually considered this as I️ could tie the lanyard off through the drain hole in the bottom of the pouch. It would be easier than my other solution, however, the lack of ability to re holster one handed concerns me.


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Sherlockanubis

Member
Network Support I
#6
Thanks man, I️ had actually considered this as I️ could tie the lanyard off through the drain hole in the bottom of the pouch. It would be easier than my other solution, however, the lack of ability to re holster one handed concerns me.


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If your going to reholster then the threat has ended and you have time to asses the situation and decide if you should reholster. Why is the gun going away if you think you need it and other than a duty style OWB holster I can't think of any concealment rigs that I can holster one handed. There is always clothing or somthing I need to clear to reholster. With both versions of the vanguard it takes just a second and then you can do it one handed if needed seeing as the triggerguard is covered.

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#7
If your going to reholster then the threat has ended and you have time to asses the situation and decide if you should reholster. Why is the gun going away if you think you need it and other than a duty style OWB holster I can't think of any concealment rigs that I can holster one handed. There is always clothing or somthing I need to clear to reholster. With both versions of the vanguard it takes just a second and then you can do it one handed if needed seeing as the triggerguard is covered.

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You have an excellent point.


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#8
If your going to reholster then the threat has ended and you have time to asses the situation and decide if you should reholster. Why is the gun going away if you think you need it and other than a duty style OWB holster I can't think of any concealment rigs that I can holster one handed. There is always clothing or somthing I need to clear to reholster. With both versions of the vanguard it takes just a second and then you can do it one handed if needed seeing as the triggerguard is covered.

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The VG3 and AC XFER can be reholstered one handed even concealed underneath a pullover hoody.
 

HighTower

Regular Member
#9
Ressurrction post:

I hate to suggest such a loathed vest, but finding a serviceable interceptor vest is not hard, and should have all the soft armor as required.

The speed difference if any between a FS tube and just throwingnon a jacket should be negligable.

The later model interceptors all have molle, so no need for LBE.

And the event should be over before all the faults of the IBA become manifest.

Just my two cents.
 

Oak City Tactics

Moderator
Moderator
#10
Its an old post but still worth discussing. Folks who think they are going to run to the truck and throw this on then run in and shoot the bad guy are likely to get shot by first responders as well. Folks who think they are going to throw this on and respond to an event from off site are likely to be stopped by second responders before getting inside or again shot by first responders as they enter the crisis site. It makes everyone feel good but it is a bad idea. If you are not armed and on site at the time it begins sorry but you missed your chance to make a difference. Believe me you are just making it more difficult for first responders and you are drawing away resources that could be used to deal with the bad guy. Having responded to one of these I can tell you just the cops at the scene made it overly complex and difficult. Off Duty plain clothes, on duty plain clothes, on duty poorly designed uniform with no visibility, way out of town agencies, etc all made life difficult. Everyone wants to help but its hard enough when calls are coming in describing the plain clothes cops as the suspects. Carry your pistol where you can. Get trained. Be skilled. Make a difference early on and change an outcome. Be ready to surrender yourself safely to the first responders when they arrive. Remember that they may be there faster than you think. Don't be left standing without a chair when the music stops.
 

Fatboy

Established
#11
To add on to what @Oak City Tactics said-

If you happen to be caught in a gunfight (doesn't matter if its an active shooter or a robbery or any other type of gunplay) you will not have time to go somewhere else, kit up and return. What you have on you is what you will fight with.

You need a plan to exfil the area if possible. If it isn't possible then you need a plan to not get shot by other responding good guys. Those that use Discord have read my tactics for if I'm ever caught in that situation.
In short, my family knows to get away from me towards safety, call 911 and give a certain description of me as well as shots fired at xyz location, an off duty cop is involved and certain other things. And my family is not to return looking for me.

Chances are I still might get shot by a responder. But at least I'll have a fighting chance.
 

jnc36rcpd

Regular Member
#12
I have to agree with Oak City Tactics and Fatboy on this issue.

While possible, you're unlikely to drive into a scenario in which you'd have time to don your chest rig and grab your rifle. It is even less likely that you'll have a chance to return to your vehicle to enter the fray. Your use of such a rig might be of more use during either home defense or a breakdown of civil authority (1992 L.A. riots, Katrina, HYDRA beats SHIELD), but even that comes with some risks.

Assuming you have time to gear up, you are unidentifiable as a good guy. Your getting shot by responding police would be a bad thing for everyone except the active shooter who now as more time before the cops can get to him. Even if you don't get shot, stopping and identifying you is going to tie up several officers for several minutes. Indeed, figuring out that you were trying to help may become an hours long ordeal for some responding officers.

There are pullover bandoleers that identify the wearer as police or security or even an armed citizen. This isn't a bad idea, but of limited use. Apart from the possibility of impersonation charges, working out that you were helping out rather than an active shooter pretending to be law enforcement or security is going to take up all sorts of time. Unless you are recognized and known as an off-duty firefighter (and possibly even then), plan on a long day becoming even longer as law enforcement decides that someone else was shooting up the joint and that you were helping out. That's going to entail speaking to multiple witnesses, perhaps testing your weapons, and checking with chain of command and possibly allied agencies such as FBI and ATF.

I applaud your desire and willingness to prepare for active shooter events. I believe I echo Oak and Fat when I suggest training with what you will have. This might entail some wardrobe changes such as always wearing a gunfighter best. While I think the G-19 is an excellent off-duty/concealed carry weapon, you might consider something such as a G-34, perhaps with RDS, to enhance your long range shooting. And, of course, training.

Good luck and be safe.
 

Oak City Tactics

Moderator
Moderator
#13
I get caught on occasion with a fairly stock G19 but it’s my bottom line. I want the most gun I can if something happens. As stated above I roll G34 with RMR and light. One Spare mag but it holds 20 plus rounds. Initial response won’t last longer than 40ish rounds. It will be over or it will be turned over to others. The most shootable gun you can carry will help alleviate your need to get another gun.
 

Oak City Tactics

Moderator
Moderator
#15
generally speaking the Glock 26 is less shootable than the 17. Full Grip, longer sight radius, more weight etc. So a pistol that provides you with the greatest potential accuracy at greater distances. A pistol less forgiving of your mistakes. The RDS may make you more accurate at longer distance than the factory sights for example. For me it means full size grip, wml, Longest barrel reasonably available. RDS, Full capacity magazines, etc. Set it up so that no blame can be placed on the gun for performance issues.
 

Fatboy

Established
#16
To help put a final nail in the coffin of running out of a building, grabbing active shooter gear, then running back in, hunting the shooter down and stopping them I'll leave this here.

In the Dayton active shooter, police response was reported to be under a minute. Garlic festival response was under three. While I haven't seen response times for the El Paso shooting yet, I can guess that it was under 5. The take away that should be reinforced is that if you don't have it with you (or take it with you from the starting bang) you won't have it during the fight.