The Roland Special

Sunshine_Shooter

Established
Network Support I
I've used a 43 with a RMS Shield sight milled into the slide. I'm not super impressed with that optic (being more accustomed to the quality of the RMR and Deltapoint), but that little 43 with a red dot is a good combo. Even the RMS Shield is a bit wider than the 43 slide though, and IMO the RMR on that gun just seems like a sombrero on a little kid.

I do intend to turn my 43 into a mini-RS when I decide on an appropriate dot. It'll have minimal barrel extension with threads as short as possible to keep the brake compact, and will be used with some sort of tuckable holster.
PLEASE post pics when you do!
 

TXLEO

Member
Network Support I
Just an update + one datapoint. My gen 5 is finished and presents no issues in a 6390RDS. Rear iron is forward of the RMR and does not interfere with the ALS, the comp/bevel miss-match does not catch on the ALS. The enhanced slide serrations do grind a bit on the draw but I figure after a few hundred draw strokes that will take care of itself (or ruin the fit of the gun in the holster).

Currently on the hunt for a ball round with a remotely similar POI to 124g +p HST. My 124 NATO ball is a good 3 inches low and left at 25. I may make a separate thread for recommendations of ball to try out.
@djsticky Any follow up on this part? My Agency Arms gun has chewed through a couple ALS mechanisms to the point there is no longer retention. Safariland sent new ones and i run electrical tape on the right side of the slide covering the offending serrations. I don't like that solution but is what is is for now.....
 
Just an update + one datapoint. My gen 5 is finished and presents no issues in a 6390RDS. Rear iron is forward of the RMR and does not interfere with the ALS, the comp/bevel miss-match does not catch on the ALS. The enhanced slide serrations do grind a bit on the draw but I figure after a few hundred draw strokes that will take care of itself (or ruin the fit of the gun in the holster).

Currently on the hunt for a ball round with a remotely similar POI to 124g +p HST. My 124 NATO ball is a good 3 inches low and left at 25. I may make a separate thread for recommendations of ball to try out.
Which NATO ball are you using? I know of Winchester and PPU. S&B is also now making NATO ball. They should all be the same specs but a different one may be a closer match to your HST than the others.
 

djsticky

Amateur
Network Support II
Which NATO ball are you using? I know of Winchester and PPU. S&B is also now making NATO ball. They should all be the same specs but a different one may be a closer match to your HST than the others.
The 124g NATO ball I was referring to was Winchester, Q4318. I've had a hell of a time finding ball ammo with a sufficiently similar POI to the 124g HSTs. I tried all manner of 124g, 115g and 147g ball. Fed American Eagle 124, Fiocchi 115 and 124, S&B 115 and 124, Blazer 115, Speer Lawman 124 and 147. None of them were close enough to the HST for me to buy a few cases of.

I ended up zeroing for 124g +P Gold Dots because the 124g lawman was pretty close to that. Not close enough that if I was doing a bullseye competition I would use it but close enough to not re-zero for maintenance trips to the range. The POI of the GDs and Lawman was actually pretty close to the 124g HSTs, just an inch or so right and perhaps .5 inch low at 25y.

Annoyingly it all shoots pretty much the same out of my factory barreled 19. I guess that comes with the territory with a match tolerance barrel? I don't know this is my first match pistol barrel.
 

Brad Trittipo

Member
Network Support I
I am seeing more "Roland Specials" built minus the comp. Is this because holsters are easier to find for an extended barrel vs comp or are there other justifications for the change?
 

djsticky

Amateur
Network Support II
@djsticky Any follow up on this part? My Agency Arms gun has chewed through a couple ALS mechanisms to the point there is no longer retention. Safariland sent new ones and i run electrical tape on the right side of the slide covering the offending serrations. I don't like that solution but is what is is for now.....
TBH I don't have any further info on this. My line of work doesn't require a duty holster (or a gun for that matter haha) so I haven't put any practice time into working out of the Safariland.
 

Nate Osborne

NateMac
Staff member
Moderator
I am seeing more "Roland Specials" built minus the comp. Is this because holsters are easier to find for an extended barrel vs comp or are there other justifications for the change?
Most likely its a priority for the buyer. I found that getting a red dot was a much better return on investment (ie. I saw higher performance increases) when getting a red dot vs. a comp. If you have X dollars to spend, I would recommend a dot before a comp too. For most people, getting a threaded barrel and comp is a $250-ish dollar investment that they might not want to make right away after just spending $500- or so on a quality dot and mill work. Just my opinion, obviously everyone has their own reasons.

Personally I don't have a comp on my sig because TBRC can't seem to make their m&p comp that fits it with any regularity. #waiting

I don't think the primary concern is holster fit. There are so many good options out there for duty or concealment holsters for a comped gun that I wouldn't consider that a problem, unless you already had a holster and didn't want to buy another one.
 

Brad Trittipo

Member
Network Support I
Glock Gen 4 MOS.

I have tested multiple brands of ammunition and weights; the malfunctions are consistent between ammo weight and magazine used with a factory recoil spring. I changed the recoil spring to a 13 lbs spring with stainless guide rod, the malfunctions continue with 124 gr American Eagle and 147 gr AYSM. The internals of the pistol are factory. The ejection of rounds is at 12 o’clock, some fall to the left of the pistol. Stovepipes are at 12 o’clock. The RMR has received limited impacts on the right side of the housing around the lens from empty cases. Double feeds are empty round case head is pinned by the neck of the next round in the magazine. The malfunctions occur throughout the magazine, regardless of the number of rounds loaded. The comp does not touch the front of the slide.

I am looking for suggestions on how to remedy the malfunctions.

Below are the stats of the pistol.

Pistol: Glock Gen 4 MOS with Large Beavertail

Serial: BFTA***

Magwell: Agency Arms

Barrel: Zev Tech: BBL-19-D.S-DLC

Comp: Primary Machine Stealth Comp

Ejector: 30274

Ejector Group: 5357

Extractor: 1879

Factory Recoil Spring: Factory: 034

Aftermarket Recoil Spring: Lone Wolf Stainless 19 with Gen 4 Adaptor and ISM Compact 15 lbs
Spring

RMR: Trijicon RMR6

Magazines: Glock and MAGPUL

Ammo tested when malfunctions have occurred: American Eagle 124; Remington Green 115; ASYM 147

Ammo tested without Malfunctions: Bobcat Armaments 115, 124, 147
 
Glock Gen 4 MOS.

I have tested multiple brands of ammunition and weights; the malfunctions are consistent between ammo weight and magazine used with a factory recoil spring. I changed the recoil spring to a 13 lbs spring with stainless guide rod, the malfunctions continue with 124 gr American Eagle and 147 gr AYSM. The internals of the pistol are factory. The ejection of rounds is at 12 o’clock, some fall to the left of the pistol. Stovepipes are at 12 o’clock. The RMR has received limited impacts on the right side of the housing around the lens from empty cases. Double feeds are empty round case head is pinned by the neck of the next round in the magazine. The malfunctions occur throughout the magazine, regardless of the number of rounds loaded. The comp does not touch the front of the slide.

I am looking for suggestions on how to remedy the malfunctions.

Below are the stats of the pistol.

Pistol: Glock Gen 4 MOS with Large Beavertail

Serial: BFTA***

Magwell: Agency Arms

Barrel: Zev Tech: BBL-19-D.S-DLC

Comp: Primary Machine Stealth Comp

Ejector: 30274

Ejector Group: 5357

Extractor: 1879

Factory Recoil Spring: Factory: 034

Aftermarket Recoil Spring: Lone Wolf Stainless 19 with Gen 4 Adaptor and ISM Compact 15 lbs
Spring

RMR: Trijicon RMR6

Magazines: Glock and MAGPUL

Ammo tested when malfunctions have occurred: American Eagle 124; Remington Green 115; ASYM 147

Ammo tested without Malfunctions: Bobcat Armaments 115, 124, 147
What I have found with my comped (TBRC)19 gen 3 is that 124 gr works really well at 1200 FPS. 124 NATO spec (Winchester Q4318 and PPU) functions perfectly.
147 gr works well for me at 1000/1050 FPS.
THE Asym loads I checked are only 915/925. The AE 147 (AE9FP, 1000 FPS) works well, standard pressure and +P 147 HST both also function perfectly. Comps love high pressure and/or higher velocity is my understanding and has worked for me in practice.
 
What I have found with my comped (TBRC)19 gen 3 is that 124 gr works really well at 1200 FPS. 124 NATO spec (Winchester Q4318 and PPU) functions perfectly.
147 gr works well for me at 1000/1050 FPS.
THE Asym loads I checked are only 915/925. The AE 147 (AE9FP, 1000 FPS) works well, standard pressure and +P 147 HST both also function perfectly. Comps love high pressure and/or higher velocity is my understanding and has worked for me in practice.
ETA: I forgot to mention that with the lower velocity or lower pressure 147 gr. loads I get stovepipes at the same orientation you describe. I tried 11,13, and 15 lb. recoil springs. None of which improved low velocity 147 gr. loads reliability. 115 gr loads at lower velocities exhibit the stove pipes as well but not as frequently as the 147 loads.
If I want to work on malfunction reduction and getting the gun back in the fight I will run several mags of 115’s. The malfs are random enough to make them a viable training load for just that purpose only.
 

BassFlats&Beyond

Member
Network Support I
So I finally got my gun back from ATEi.
19x, rmr06, kkm barrel and comp.
I’m gonna test it this weekend. If it turns out I have to play with spring rates, what is the standard spring rate for a 19x/gen5 19? What aftermarket springs have been working well for others?
 

BassFlats&Beyond

Member
Network Support I
So I shot my 19x roland for the first time today. I got 1 failure to feed out of 50 rounds 124 nato spec. And 8 FTF out of 150 rounds 115 focchi. Same exact malfunction every time. Is it time to start playing with recoil springs or is there something else to try first?

Gun specs
19x,
kkm barrel and comp
RM06 type 2
ATEi slide
Zev pro magwell
All stock springs.
3.5# connector
 

Attachments

rudukai13

Too Established
Network Support III
So I shot my 19x roland for the first time today. I got 1 failure to feed out of 50 rounds 124 nato spec. And 8 FTF out of 150 rounds 115 focchi. Same exact malfunction every time. Is it time to start playing with recoil springs or is there something else to try first?

Gun specs
19x,
kkm barrel and comp
RM06 type 2
ATEi slide
Zev pro magwell
All stock springs.
3.5# connector
How many rounds had you shot through the pistol before this outing? It's possible it just needs a break-in period. My P320 stuttered on standard pressure 115gr when I first added the comp but after a few hundred rounds of hotter stuff it handles it fine now.

Also, your 19X is black? Did you get it re-finished?
 

BassFlats&Beyond

Member
Network Support I
How many rounds had you shot through the pistol before this outing? It's possible it just needs a break-in period. My P320 stuttered on standard pressure 115gr when I first added the comp but after a few hundred rounds of hotter stuff it handles it fine now.

Also, your 19X is black? Did you get it re-finished?
Yes I did get it refinished. It’s black slide and OD green frame. Glocks don’t usually require break in. Maybe kkm barrels do? I know that the comp works better with full power and +p loading a. That said focchi isn’t exactly weak ammo. I have a tbrc comp on a blacklist barrel. It gives me no reliability issues unless I’m using the weakest ammo.
 

Attachments

I’d say run at least several hundred more NATO Spec ammo thru it. My TBRC loves the NATO Spec Ammo. Also 124+P HST 147+P and Federal AE9FP 147 standard pressure. High pressure and/or high velocity is a comps best friend in my experience.
 

rudukai13

Too Established
Network Support III
Yes I did get it refinished. It’s black slide and OD green frame. Glocks don’t usually require break in. Maybe kkm barrels do? I know that the comp works better with full power and +p loading a. That said focchi isn’t exactly weak ammo. I have a tbrc comp on a blacklist barrel. It gives me no reliability issues unless I’m using the weakest ammo.
Looks great! Most modern duty pistols don't require break-in out of the box because their springs are tuned to function on a wide range of ammo specs, but with a compensator you're introducing an additional factor to the equation and yes, the KKM barrel will have tighter tolerances than the stock barrel, further narrowing the (initial) range of functional ammo specs still. I would suggest sticking to the 124gr NATO or other higher-pressure ammo for the first few hundred rounds, then give the 115gr standard pressure another try once the system has settled in a bit. If you stilll experience some issues with lighter ammo at that point, then it might be time to considering adjusting spring weights
 

BassFlats&Beyond

Member
Network Support I
I’d say run at least several hundred more NATO Spec ammo thru it. My TBRC loves the NATO Spec Ammo. Also 124+P HST 147+P and Federal AE9FP 147 standard pressure. High pressure and/or high velocity is a comps best friend in my experience.
My other glock pictured is sporting a tbrc comp riding a blacklist barrel. Perfect function with everything but steel case and crap reloads. The kkm is a noticeably more effective comp however.
 
My other glock pictured is sporting a tbrc comp riding a blacklist barrel. Perfect function with everything but steel case and crap reloads. The kkm is a noticeably more effective comp however.
Is that TBRC the stubby model or the micro? It looks like the stubby. Which I would guess may not be quite as effective as the micro. I’m not saying the micro is as effective as the KKM, I haven’t shot a KKM so I can make no real world comparison.
I do have probably 1500 rounds of NATO spec and several hundreds each of 124+p HST and 147 standard pressure and +P 147 HST thru my TBRC micro with zero malfunctions so I might give my stash of 115 gr. loads another go. Low velocity @900/925 FPS 147 gr. is a definite no go for me regardless of RSA spring weight, 11, 13, 15, 18 pounds doesn’t matter that load doesn’t function worth a damn.
 

BassFlats&Beyond

Member
Network Support I
It’s the stubby. It is not as effective as the kkm which might explain why it’s been more reliable. I’ve got about 1/2 a case of nato left. If it runs through that with no more than 1 malfunction, I’ll move on to testing 147 gold dots and HST, and 124 +p gold dot.
 

nightchief

Fighter of the Daychief
Network Support I
I have shot both the TBRC and KKM...I currently have a G19 running with the KKM barrel/comp. The KKM does not like low power ammo, e.g. Fiocchi 115gr, Blazer 115gr or Magtech 115gr. In my experience, this ammo causes failures to eject (stove pipes) and failures to feed. My Silerncer Co./TBRC micro also prefers higher power factor ammo.

Both of my set ups run well with MEN 124 Nato, Winchester 124 Nato and Speer Lawman. Additionally, Fed HST, Fed HST +P, Speer Gold Dot and Speer Gold Dot +P run well with both.