Suicide watch failiure? Plausable cover?

#2
Typically when someone is placed on suicide watch they would be placed in a specifically designated and designed observation cell. The cell would be devoid of most things one would be able to hang themselves from or harm themselves with and would provide a good view for an officer or a camera to maintain 24/7 observation. The person in the cell would have their belongings taken away save for a tear-resistant smock of some kind, and the list goes on. The only way to be removed from such a watch would be at the direction of the Sheriff/Warden and the Chief Psychologist.

This is in a perfect world with perfect staffing and with enough observation cells for severely suicidal offenders. In the real world, things get a lot weirder and tragically so. You may have a severely limited number of designated observation cells; my Level III, 1100 bed facility has one designated observation cell for mental health holds. The other cells that can be used in a pinch have blind spots. You're supposed to conduct 15 minute checks in my department. People can be lazy, and it isn't unlikely that these checks can be penciled in, especially by those working long OT shifts. Suicidal persons get really creative; you can kill yourself with even a small amount of elastic from the inside of your underwear in about 10-12 minutes. Anecdotally speaking, there's a story from a member of the Blue Check Twitteratti about an inmate committing suicide 20 feet from a CO in an observation cell. If the CO had adjusted their chair about three feet or stood up and walked over, they would have seen what was happening and may have been able to prevent someone's death.

Of course, recent events seem to indicate that the person in question was removed from suicide watch prior to their successful attempt. This was probably done because of the OT being incurred and the danger of not staffing "more" critical posts.
 
#3
It also doesnt help when your vic is over 6 foot tall, and "hangs" himself off a 5ft tall bunk bed - crushing bones in his throat and holding his feet off the ground while unconscious long enough to asphyxiate.

Very impressive- even for today's media


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#4
It also doesnt help when your vic is over 6 foot tall, and "hangs" himself off a 5ft tall bunk bed - crushing bones in his throat and holding his feet off the ground while unconscious long enough to asphyxiate.

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You can asphyxiate yourself without your feet leaving the ground. Epstein was 66 when he died. With age bones and ligaments weaken. The same injuries are seen in most hanging-esque suicides, especially when the deceased is over 40 years of age. Leave the conspiracies for the memes.
 
#5
You can asphyxiate yourself without your feet leaving the ground. Epstein was 66 when he died. With age bones and ligaments weaken. The same injuries are seen in most hanging-esque suicides, especially when the deceased is over 40 years of age. Leave the conspiracies for the memes.
This is true. But in some cases it's used to cover up a murder blamed suicide hanging. At least 2 that I had seen in my time with the BOP.
 
#6
This is true. But in some cases it's used to cover up a murder blamed suicide hanging. At least 2 that I had seen in my time with the BOP.
I don't doubt it. Here's the kicker, though: you're talking about it. I haven't heard of anyone at MDC angling for their 15 minutes of fame and dropping the biggest scoop of the decade.
 

Erick Gelhaus

Moderator
Moderator
#8
Two quick work recollections - there was an inmate who had previously made suicidal statements but was no longer deemed suicidal, he killed himself via asphyxiation with a jail sandwich, shoved it down his own throat until died; have had a couple of suicide by hanging scenes where the decedent's feet were on the ground.
 
#11
....but did he crush the bones in his neck.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20973326

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/10736625_Analysis_of_Neck_Injuries_in_Hanging

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30015282

Bad question. It doesn't matter if those cases broke their hyoid bone when it's been documented in others, particularly in those of Epstein's age.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20585227

You can also break the same bone by vomiting. The bone fractures doesn't prove or disprove anything.
 

tact

Regular Member
#15
Welcome to the Primary and Secondary Forums, where data and testing matter right up until the point where they interfere with your favorite conspiracy theory.
Bias confirmation......much?

If you are referring to data and testing presented which only support a single theory devoid of anything that challenges the narrative.......yea that’s scientific. Chalk up a conspiracy theory label for good measure to detract from the holes in the argument.

“Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.”
 
#16
Bias confirmation......much?

If you are referring to data and testing presented which only support a single theory devoid of anything that challenges the narrative.......yea that’s scientific. Chalk up a conspiracy theory label for good measure to detract from the holes in the argument.

“Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.”
The question in this thread is whether it's plausible that someone could kill themselves while on suicide watch. Not only is it plausible, it's happened numerous times due to incompetence, a lack of professionalism, and a lack of resources amongst those that work in my field. Your response to my posting of numerous scientific studies of suicides and deaths involving hyoid bone fractures showing that it is not only possible but common in suicides involving those advanced in age was that Epstein's suicide is "perfectly plausible.......just like Santa Claus." If you choose to ignore evidence because of your conviction that the narrative is misleading or false and write it off as a fairy tale, that's on you.