"Stop being Poor!"; a clarification.

#1
So I've been following P&S (mostly lurking) for a while on FB, the ModCasts, and recently here on the forum. We all know the running joke where people speak dismissively of "the poors". Or like when a friend with a MAWL "flexes" on my Dbal. We understand the context so it's funny, but I've also seen people outside the network refer to us as elitist. So I think a little clarification is in order. I want this network to grow and I'd hate for someone who can only afford a stock Glock, to think they don't belong here and miss out on the knowledge because someone held up a Roland Special and jokingly said "Stop being poor!"

The way I see it, being poor is not simply a condition of having little or no money. If someone doesn't have enough cash because they're paying off debt, saving up for something important, or experiencing a financial emergency; that's not the poor we're talking about. Poor is a symptom of ignorant or poor(see what I did there?) decision making. People have gone bankrupt after winning the lottery. If you give crackheads a million dollars, and they continue to make the same shitty decisions that led to being crackheads in the first place, they'll eventually end up back where they started. Even with money, those people are still poor. They just haven't run out of it yet.

So when we disparage the "poors", we're pointing out the pattern of defending bad, financially motivated choices, either though ignorance or willful incompetence. It's not an ad hominem attack on a person because of their bank account. This is also not to be confused with derp, even though they are closely related.

Examples of "poors" thinking:
Poor: "I need a gun right now, and this $300 pistol is "just as good" as X.
Not Poor: "I need a gun right now, and this $300 pistol is the best I can afford at the moment."

Poor: "I just can't afford a 2-day training course, so I'll watch Jedi on YouTube and shoot $60 of ammo at the range."
Not Poor: "I just can't afford a 2-day training course, so I'll forgo $60 of ammo, and do an hour online with Jedi."

Poor: "I'm gonna try to fix the feed lips on this aluminum AR magazine and use it for home defense."
Not Poor: "I'm gonna try to fix the feed lips on this aluminum AR magazine and use it for practice/malfunction drills only."

So let's keep in mind that "flexing on the poors" is really about educating people to make better decisions with their money, or at least preventing that bad information from being spread as meaningful knowledge.
 
#2
If you have to finance your PVS-31As and MAWL, you are poor, regardless of your equipment. There's definitely a difference between being cheap and buying shit versus making financially stupid/crippling decisions to have cool shit in your gun safe, but both are foolish. The latter reminds me of the lance corporal driving a corvette.

Training>cool shit. It might be cool to have Dual tubes, but if you cannot afford to go to a Press-Check Consulting Night Fighter class, you might as well just bought some PVS-14s.
 

Grizzly

Regular Member
#6
I think that's understood. My case was to the guy who throws down big on the pricy object (to flex) and is eating mustard packets between the payments. Aka house poor.
I guess buys big objects, eats mustard and DOESN'T train right?

I know at least a few cops eating ramen noodles so they can afford gear and training. They aren't ignorant or "poors". Just guys doing a job and sacrificing to do it.
 
#7
I'm speaking to the douchebags with high end gear to flex and not train. If you are trying to make ends meet to have the right gear that isn't provided, understandable. One could argue that proper nutrition and health is just as important as having Gucci gear and one could say is more important. I come from Marine background where we don't have a massive budget for training, nor get the Gucci, but we have to make the mission.

I present my original case: What is better? Having PVS31A with no training budget OR PVS14 with a proper training budget?

End of the day, be a good dude.
 

user12358

Regular Member
#8
I'm speaking to the douchebags with high end gear to flex and not train.
Why does it matter what someone else has? Does someone posting their MAWL on Instagram change your life or shooting in any way? Why does it bother you when they don't use their kit? I have a buddy the has a MAWL and some white Phos dual tubes in a ball-detent mount that has never been in a gunfight and statistically never will. Is he a douchebag for owning them or is he only a douchebag if you know he owns them or is he only a douchebag if you don't like him owing them?

I don't get this constant obsession that the internet has with other people's gear and how much they use it. This goes hand in hand with the people that feel any modification or addition to a gun is awful and you should just focus on training. Guess what, you can't train a light to magically come out of your gun or have a stock glock "iron" sights show up under NODs. Just work with what you got and stop worrying so much about everyone else. When you identify a deficiency in your setup through training, correct it as funding permits (personal or organizational), whether it is changing out a Mag pouch or upgrading to dual tube night vision.
 

user12358

Regular Member
#10
I think the original point was for this community to not become a place for those insta people.
Huh, I thought the original point was for this community to be somewhere where you could get information from people that didn't just spout off buzzwords and could actually give advice they could backup with rational thought or evidence. The OP was good although if you don't learn because you got offended you have a lot bigger life lessons to learn than any thing you will read on here. Circle jerking about how people with "Gucci" gear don't train and how nutrition and health is, somehow, in anyway a trade off with solid kit is just as stupid as the "insta people" that just take pictures of their rifles which perturbs you so much.
 
#11
I'm assuming the original point of the post was to curb that mentality. You do you bro. I'm not perturbed. Don't get me wrong, I want the latest gear, I want the best training. I'm actively pursuing both, but I'm not sacrificing other areas, nor putting people down.
 
#12
I've no problem with offending people if it's the truth. But if you see rampant stupidity, by all means savagely call it out.

My original point that I poorly articulated, was about being mindful of outsiders perceptions about what we say so we don't inhibit growth of the network. Back in my Fudd days (is there a term for an Asian Fudd?), I was originally told to stay away from P&S because "they're a bunch of elitist snobs blah blah blah". On P&S we sometimes use words and phrases in a different way from the common vernacular.

So when we say "flexing on the poors", it's as an ironic reference to the dudes who show off cool guy gear to feel superior, but have no desire to train nor have any meaningful information using that gear to pass on.

We obviously try to stay above that BS.

In the context of its use in P&S, "flexing on the poors", is about relaying the experience of people who train/deploy with their gear enough to understand the value over lower priced options, with the understanding that cheaper options aren't necessarily inferior depending on the user's requirements. But an outsider or newbie may not see it that way.

For example, if someone is just starting out and buys an XD, and then hears us crapping on it, he has no idea that it comes from a high observed failure rate in classes. In his mind, we're just picking on his gun choice unless we take the extra second to provide that context.

Or let's say my friend posts somewhere that he's equipping a dozen .22s with Holsuns for a youth summer camp, and I respond with "That's cool, or you can stop being poor and get Aimpoints". We all get the joke. But someone else might read that IG post and assume I'm being an insta-douche. It's not really a problem on the P&S forum or FB group, but if we want to grow this community, we may need to be a little more mindful of how we relay info outside of P&S.
 
#15
There's "poor", and then there's "poor". In an LE context, I'm constantly running into co-workers and associates who don't think they have enough money for good, durable gear, but have enough money for a Harley, a bass boat, a camper, or to show up everyday with a five-dollar cup of coffee in their hand.

I've been trying to mentor those folks in a positive way, to help them find ways to get the good stuff. Sometimes steering them toward discounts and "good deals" will help bait them into it.
 

BassFlats&Beyond

Member
Network Support I
#16
in the spirit of the thread, what about the non mil/LE/competition dude who may have just taken a $30 gun show ccw class and might not own a handgun yet?

Say he has $300 that he is willing to spend. he has more but he isn’t sure if the armed lifestyle is for him (hence the cheap ass ccw class).

Should he take that money to a decent instructor who can load him a gun for the class, or buy some sub par $300 pistol or used Glock 22/23?
 

krax

Regular Member
Network Support I
#17
In that oddly specific example, I'd recommend that guy get the used Glock. There are a number of free/cheap resources for getting training at the most basic level, but you may as well have a decent gun.
 
#18
There's "poor", and then there's "poor". In an LE context, I'm constantly running into co-workers and associates who don't think they have enough money for good, durable gear, but have enough money for a Harley, a bass boat, a camper, or to show up everyday with a five-dollar cup of coffee in their hand.

I've been trying to mentor those folks in a positive way, to help them find ways to get the good stuff. Sometimes steering them toward discounts and "good deals" will help bait them into it.
Being "poor" in America is like 80%+ (yes I made up the number but in fairness I started at 95% ) a matter of priorities, and a willingness to delay gratification.

If you literally can only afford to spend $300 on a pistol keep saving and buy a used g19/17 when you have $400 (going rate in my neck of the woods).

I'm more or less "poor" based on income v dependants /deductions and still make enough to do a min of 1 class annually and buy quality kit because it's a priority for our family.

The people who are always shitting on successful (wealthy) people bug the crap out of me quit crying and go get a piece for yourself. @Seth Thompson nailed it priorities priorities priorities
 
#19
I always saw the term “ the poors” to be the equal of the good enough crowd. Why buy a surfire or stream light when this gun show airsoft light is just as good. Maybe I’m wrong in that thought process.


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