SCOUT Rifles

Jeremy Stafford

Moderator
Moderator
#41
Longeye, I attended the Scout Rifle Conference. I've been to tons of events, and this one ranks near the top as far as actual training goes. The Gunsite instructors know the rifle and it's purpose and it shows in their curriculum. The facility is also really set up to get the most out of it, with several courses of fire with UKD targets out past 500 (we only went to 500, but there were further targets I think).

I shot the Mossberg and it did everything I needed it to do. It's a bit front heavy, and I don't love the stock, but after breaking the barrel in it holds sub MOA (real sub MOA, not media MOA) with both Federal 168 GMM and PRIME 175. Usually I don't do the whole barrel break in thing, but under the borescope, I wasn't thrilled with what I saw. It turns out that my rifle was a hastily thrown together "show sample", but it shot so well I kept it. The trigger adjusted down to 2.2 pounds and is very good. It had a weird hitch at first, right in the take up before the break, but after the barrel break in rounds it disappeared. The Vortex scout scope sucked balls compared to the Burris and Leupold scout scopes that I shot at the event, but at it's price point, it's not terrible. I'm sure the rifle will shoot even tighter with some good glass.

The Col. valued "handiness" above most everything and was a big proponent of the snap shot, or coming from ready position to on target quickly. His standard was a six inch circle at 50 yards in 1.5 seconds. Definitely doable with the Mossberg, but the Steyr stock makes it way faster. There was a competition on the fourth day, and I ended up taking fourth. As I pulled the gun out of the case that morning I noticed that the action screw had come loose (my fault, I should have blue loc-tited it when I adjusted the trigger). I tightened it back up, but it messed up my dope, costing me some shots wide right on the first UKD course of fire until I figured out my Kentucky windage. My fault completely, but I'm pretty sure I could have taken second. The guy that won the shoot was the Steyr factory shooter. He was like the fucking Terminator, I don't think I could have beat him on my birthday, with my dick in one hand and a six pack in the other.

The Mossbergs ability to take M14 mags as well as SR-25 mags is awesome, and I have a nice pile of old M14 mags as well as my Magpuls that work in this rifle and my .308 ARs, so that's a big plus. There were some fast, multi shot and reload courses that the Mossberg did well in based on the chunky barrel not stringing shots and the ease of reloading. The magazine release needs to be a tad longer and the bolt knob is too big, causing some inadvertent fail to fires with some shooters that had happy fingers. I didn't have that problem, but it needs to be refined, which Mossberg in in the process of doing. Steyr, Mossberg, and Ruger all sent factory reps and Steyr and Mossberg actually had engineers competing, so there is great factory support behind the platform.

All in all, I like it. It's not for everyone, and it's not a "go to war" gun, but for backwoods adventures and hunting out to 4-500 on moving targets, I really like it. It's going to kill some Javelina, that's for sure.
 
#42
I picked up a Ruger GSR, installed the XS extended rail and have a Vortex Viper PST 1-4 mounted. I'm having trouble finding the right sling, I want a 2 point sling set up similar to how I run my AR. Also, I noticed the bolt is a bit rough to work and sometimes didn't pick up the round from the mag. I have only had it out once to zero it, so I'm hoping it just needs to get worked in so to speak. Has anyone else experienced this?
 

Jeremy Stafford

Moderator
Moderator
#43
I picked up a Ruger GSR, installed the XS extended rail and have a Vortex Viper PST 1-4 mounted. I'm having trouble finding the right sling, I want a 2 point sling set up similar to how I run my AR. Also, I noticed the bolt is a bit rough to work and sometimes didn't pick up the round from the mag. I have only had it out once to zero it, so I'm hoping it just needs to get worked in so to speak. Has anyone else experienced this?
Hey Westie, I also started with a tactical 2 point style sling, but as I shot it in field conditions, it became obvious that it just wasn't the right tool for the job. To run the Scout efficiently, you're going to need to got to a Scout specific sling, like a Ching sling or something of the sort.

The Ruger bolts are a little rough at first, but the samples that I fired that had some rounds through them had all smoothed out nicely.

I haven't seen any that didn't pick the round up, is there any chance you could be running the bolt short?
 
#44
It depends what you want the sling for.
If shooting, use a Ching or preferably Rhodesian. Or 1917....
If carrying, a two point like a VTAC, with side mounted QD sockets.
If both, use the VTAC as it is a better compromise.
The Ching is a lousy carry sling. But the VTAC or Vickers can be used as a decent shooting support with the right technique.
 
#45
Jeremy, I've never heard of the Ching sling, but will check it out. My original plan was to mount the Vickers sling in the same fashion as I mount to my AR, QD mounted to the sides, but haven't figured out the best way yet. As for the bolt, it could be possible I was running it short, I just found that it didn't function smooth, maybe I need to go run a 100 rounds through it.

Longeye, how would you suggest to mount the Vickers sling?
 
#46
Hang on for some pictures. Essentially, put a QD socket at 9 on the forend, one at 6 on the rear grip, and one at some where between 9-11 just forward of the butt pad. Drill 1/2" holes then AcraGel the sockets in place.
 

Longeye

Established
#47
Still figuring the picture thing out.

In other news, this Winchester FW Classic project shoots nice sub MOA groups at 200 yards. But it puts different loads about 4" apart. And I have not even tried the 180 grainers yet.

In contrast, my Steyr Scout would print everything in the same group with monotonous regularity. It was a nice consistent MOA rifle.
 
#48
Just throwing this out there, if I missed something that knocks it out of the discussion, I apologize, what about something like an M1A Socom 16? Seems like it should check most of the boxes, .308, a 16.25 in barrel, the CQB comes with a pistol grip stock, predrilled for sling studs, enough rails to add something, but not those huge heavy ones, throw scout scopes on it, or get the mount for regular scopes, seems pretty versatile for this role.
 
#49
It would be... Except for the part about being accurate and user friendly.

The M-14 is not particularly accurate out of the box and won't stay accurate for long after expensive work to make it so.
And you can pull the op rod out of track during manipulation. And it is heavy. And the rock/lock is a poor way to rapidly replace mags. The pistol grip is good for shooting but lousy for carry. Being relatively short is about its only good point.
The SCAR 17 is still the only semi auto that is close to being a Scout.
 

MrMurphy

Regular Member
#50
Longeye, I attended the Scout Rifle Conference. I've been to tons of events, and this one ranks near the top as far as actual training goes. The Gunsite instructors know the rifle and it's purpose and it shows in their curriculum. The facility is also really set up to get the most out of it, with several courses of fire with UKD targets out past 500 (we only went to 500, but there were further targets I think).

I shot the Mossberg and it did everything I needed it to do. It's a bit front heavy, and I don't love the stock, but after breaking the barrel in it holds sub MOA (real sub MOA, not media MOA) with both Federal 168 GMM and PRIME 175. Usually I don't do the whole barrel break in thing, but under the borescope, I wasn't thrilled with what I saw. It turns out that my rifle was a hastily thrown together "show sample", but it shot so well I kept it. The trigger adjusted down to 2.2 pounds and is very good. It had a weird hitch at first, right in the take up before the break, but after the barrel break in rounds it disappeared. The Vortex scout scope sucked balls compared to the Burris and Leupold scout scopes that I shot at the event, but at it's price point, it's not terrible. I'm sure the rifle will shoot even tighter with some good glass.

The Col. valued "handiness" above most everything and was a big proponent of the snap shot, or coming from ready position to on target quickly. His standard was a six inch circle at 50 yards in 1.5 seconds. Definitely doable with the Mossberg, but the Steyr stock makes it way faster. There was a competition on the fourth day, and I ended up taking fourth. As I pulled the gun out of the case that morning I noticed that the action screw had come loose (my fault, I should have blue loc-tited it when I adjusted the trigger). I tightened it back up, but it messed up my dope, costing me some shots wide right on the first UKD course of fire until I figured out my Kentucky windage. My fault completely, but I'm pretty sure I could have taken second. The guy that won the shoot was the Steyr factory shooter. He was like the fucking Terminator, I don't think I could have beat him on my birthday, with my dick in one hand and a six pack in the other.

The Mossbergs ability to take M14 mags as well as SR-25 mags is awesome, and I have a nice pile of old M14 mags as well as my Magpuls that work in this rifle and my .308 ARs, so that's a big plus. There were some fast, multi shot and reload courses that the Mossberg did well in based on the chunky barrel not stringing shots and the ease of reloading. The magazine release needs to be a tad longer and the bolt knob is too big, causing some inadvertent fail to fires with some shooters that had happy fingers. I didn't have that problem, but it needs to be refined, which Mossberg in in the process of doing. Steyr, Mossberg, and Ruger all sent factory reps and Steyr and Mossberg actually had engineers competing, so there is great factory support behind the platform.

All in all, I like it. It's not for everyone, and it's not a "go to war" gun, but for backwoods adventures and hunting out to 4-500 on moving targets, I really like it. It's going to kill some Javelina, that's for sure.




Jeremy, what's your opinion of the Mossberg vs the Ruger? I've handled both, haven't been able to shoot either. The Mossberg seems "flimsier" overall, though I like some of the features.
 

Jeremy Stafford

Moderator
Moderator
#51
Jeremy, what's your opinion of the Mossberg vs the Ruger? I've handled both, haven't been able to shoot either. The Mossberg seems "flimsier" overall, though I like some of the features.
Hey Mr. Murphy. The Mossberg seems flimsier because of the stock material they use, it doesn't really affect function or durability, it's just a "feel" thing. I definitely like the stock on the Ruger better as it feels more solid. I prefer the Mossberg overall though because of a couple of different reasons. First one being that they were the more accurate of the two with a better trigger. Since Ruger made the Ruger Precision Rifle, I know they can do accuracy, but the Mossberg Scouts that I have shot have outshot the Rugers that I have shot. I also really like the Mossberg's ability to run multiple magazine types. I do have a relationship with the Mossberg people, but still, bullet holes don't lie. The Steyr remains the category champ though, no questions there.
 
#52
I used to hunt with a scout, made from a Ruger Ultralite, the rib from a #1, and a Burris Scout scope. Things I did NOT like about the set-up were lack of magnification (many times I could see a shot through 8x binos that I could not see through the scope), rain (easy to keep both thumbs on the butler creeks of a conventionally mounted scope, the scout requires more time/movement), sun (I would sometimes get glare off a low-angle sun on the ocular of the scout scope that I could have blocked with my hat using a conventional scope).

The scout scope FELT faster than a low-range variable conventional scope, but the timer didn't agree.

FWIW
 
#53
OP- Did you ever get your GP rifle?

I have been working on a Winchester M70 compact classic project that shows some promise. The action is slick, trigger decent, and Talley Unies save some weight. I am dropping the barreled action into a full-size stock, as I am a full-size rifleman. Its feature set won't be as comprehensive as the Steyr or Ruger, but I expect it to be a useful GP rifle when finished.
I'm so sorry I have not been back but yes. I picked up a Ruger with the 16" barrel. For now it wears the Leupold 2.5x Scout Scope. I like it.

It's not as refined as the Steyr but it's every bit as functional which was what I was looking for: basic, solid-for-where-it-matters type of rifle.

I've been toying with a name for her (which is a clue that I'm smitten by it).


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#54
The Ruger scout rifles need the bolt race cleaned up with lapping compound. And subjectively the OEM muzzle thing needs swapped for a Vortex. Otherwise, the synthetic version is kinda GTG.
The Col. was remarkably dogmatic, even considering the concept he was pushing was pretty radical. I would have been surprised if he ever found a gas gun he liked.
That said, the SCAR 17 is very close to his ideal. It is exceptionally close on weight, especially if a Aimpoint T2 is mounted.
It is likely to be the next project after this M70 is finished.
The bolt definitely needs cleaning up and mine wears a Surefire.


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