SCAR 17 - Stay or Go?

Hey all -

I have a SCAR 17, to be honest I bought it mostly because of the cool guy factor. I live west of Boise (farmland, pastures, lots of wide open spaces, etc) so maybe I am justified in having a 308. Although after listening to the 556 v 308 podcast, I have been questioning that.

I enjoy shooting it, but I would enjoy shooting a well made AR15 just as much (possibly more, as there's a .20¢ difference in ammo cost).

My question to you folks with more experience is: is there any reason to keep the SCAR or should I sell it and get a KAC or Hodge?
 
Right now mostly as a range toy, with some competition use (2 gun, highpower matches, maybe some mid-long range stuff).

In the future, as a ranch type rifle. Varmint control, across the handlebars of an ATV while surveying the property, stuff like that.
 

Ryan St.Jean

Regular Member
Thoughts
-The ‘do everything rifle’ is a dysfunctional compromise that isn’t awesome at anything. Baring artificial constraints (weird situations where you can have 1 rifle, financial/ marital constraints etc) it typically isn’t the way to go.

For the cost of a SCAR H (rough math says) you could have a solid AR (Colt, BCM, etc) and a dedicated distance gun like a savage Model 10 or a Ruger Precision with about a thousand dollar optic.

Or a fancy AR and a distance gun that you can save up to buy an optic for.

I think the combination would suit most people better.

If it were me I would buy a convenient fighting carbine and put whatever resources are left over towards a distance gun.
 
Buy an AR, mount scopes, and shoot both. If I was to compare the 5.56mm to a .308. Well, what's the cheapest ball, for farmland defense, in a .308 versus a 77-grain 5.56mm out of an 1-7 twist AR?

Are both optioned mounted with scopes? If so, then the reason for the specificity in 5.56mm is ballistic coefficient. It may just be me, but I've seen some amazing things with 77gr at most distances and it would be what I use in a 5.56mm rifle on a farm.

EX. 540 rounds of Malay surplus is $230 vs 77gr IMI Razorcore from SGAmmo at $330 ($145 for 62gr M855 re-manufactured, by the way).

Ryan presents a perfect point, though. SCAR 17 prices went up again within the last three months. Average price is $3,200 on GunBroker right now. Most places are sitting around $3,500. You can buy a really nice 16-inch BCM, and nearly any Vortex Razor option you could ask for, if you score $3K on the sale.

I wouldn't sell it. I through a high-end optic on it, from Vortex due to the warranty (because I haven't heard of a brand that's held up under the recoil of that platform), and happily ruin days of coyotes or whatever you need to nail down. I'd buy a BCM and mount a 1-6x on it for the closer ranges. But that's just me.
 

Ryan St.Jean

Regular Member
Buy an AR, mount scopes, and shoot both. If I was to compare the 5.56mm to a .308. Well, what's the cheapest ball, for farmland defense, in a .308 versus a 77-grain 5.56mm out of an 1-7 twist AR?

Are both optioned mounted with scopes? If so, then the reason for the specificity in 5.56mm is ballistic coefficient. It may just be me, but I've seen some amazing things with 77gr at most distances and it would be what I use in a 5.56mm rifle on a farm.

EX. 540 rounds of Malay surplus is $230 vs 77gr IMI Razorcore from SGAmmo at $330 ($145 for 62gr M855 re-manufactured, by the way).

Ryan presents a perfect point, though. SCAR 17 prices went up again within the last three months. Average price is $3,200 on GunBroker right now. Most places are sitting around $3,500. You can buy a really nice 16-inch BCM, and nearly any Vortex Razor option you could ask for, if you score $3K on the sale.

I wouldn't sell it. I through a high-end optic on it, from Vortex due to the warranty (because I haven't heard of a brand that's held up under the recoil of that platform), and happily ruin days of coyotes or whatever you need to nail down. I'd buy a BCM and mount a 1-6x on it for the closer ranges. But that's just me.

While I didn’t touch on it finances are a definite variable. If one can buy the potential replacement first, set it up and mess with it for awhile that is good. If one needs to sell the SCAR (before or really fast after) that offers less flexibility. If one has other demands (gun stuff or real life) that say freeing up some of that cash would be helpful that is kind of its own answer.

I think we might also have to narrow down what ‘farmland defense’ means. Are we talking predators, goblins in the normal world or some kind of goblins in an abnormal worst case world?

If the capability to lay down sustained .30 caliber hate at distance against cars and such is important then a semi auto .308 is the ticket. That’s a pretty niche scenario though.
 
Ryan,

Why do you recommend a special distance rifle? When I said I might use it for mid-long range stuff, I don't mean that I intend to use the SCAR as a distance gun; I meant only to practice with it at distance. Understand my (and the rifle's) limitations and all that. Or is that misguided thinking?

I honestly do think here in rural Idaho, there's not a high probability of needing a "farmland defense" rifle for the ranch I hope someday to own. However, I am not excluding that possibility, there may come a time when I need to protect myself with something more robust than my G19.

In the podcast episode of 556 v 762, didn't Pressburg say vehicle stoppages came from loss of fluid via punctures in hose lines and 556 does a fine enough job? It's been a while since I listened to the podcast, and I have a pretty significant hearing impairment so I might be mis-remembering or have misheard what he said. I would have to be in dire straits to shoot up vehicles - if they drove in, I want them to be able to drive away... FAST!

ArmedNovelist,


Yes I would most likely mount a scope, though if I were to dedicate myself to the AR, I might also get a red dot style sight as well. Currently the SCAR has a Leupold 1-8 CQBSS with the illuminated TMR reticle. I wish I'd gotten the Horus style reticle, but I bought it secondhand and didn't have a say in the matter.


I've noticed both the responders in this thread advocated getting two different rifles, whereas I was thinking of owning one "jack of all trades master of none" rifle. I will think about this.

And a picture, because as much as I am second guessing my purchase, the SCAR is a cool rifle:

hlLX0sg.jpg
 

Gypsy EDC

Regular Member
Hey all -

I have a SCAR 17, to be honest I bought it mostly because of the cool guy factor. I live west of Boise (farmland, pastures, lots of wide open spaces, etc) so maybe I am justified in having a 308. Although after listening to the 556 v 308 podcast, I have been questioning that.

I enjoy shooting it, but I would enjoy shooting a well made AR15 just as much (possibly more, as there's a .20¢ difference in ammo cost).

My question to you folks with more experience is: is there any reason to keep the SCAR or should I sell it and get a KAC or Hodge?
Im 35 mins west of Boise myself (howdy neighbor) I have a couple .308 sr25 pattern rifles that see minimal use after buying an Odin works 6.5 Grendel upper. The .224V might also serve you well. 5.56 will do just fine in the role you're describing (I'm a fan of pws rifles) I'd sell it and replace it with a nice 5.56 AR.

if you're interested in seeing what the 6.5G can do pm me I'm right next to 3500 acres of BLM and am almost* always down to smack some steel

*105f isn't as fun

aaron
 

Ryan St.Jean

Regular Member
Ryan,

Why do you recommend a special distance rifle? When I said I might use it for mid-long range stuff, I don't mean that I intend to use the SCAR as a distance gun; I meant only to practice with it at distance. Understand my (and the rifle's) limitations and all that. Or is that misguided thinking?

I honestly do think here in rural Idaho, there's not a high probability of needing a "farmland defense" rifle for the ranch I hope someday to own. However, I am not excluding that possibility, there may come a time when I need to protect myself with something more robust than my G19.

In the podcast episode of 556 v 762, didn't Pressburg say vehicle stoppages came from loss of fluid via punctures in hose lines and 556 does a fine enough job? It's been a while since I listened to the podcast, and I have a pretty significant hearing impairment so I might be mis-remembering or have misheard what he said. I would have to be in dire straits to shoot up vehicles - if they drove in, I want them to be able to drive away... FAST!

ArmedNovelist,


Yes I would most likely mount a scope, though if I were to dedicate myself to the AR, I might also get a red dot style sight as well. Currently the SCAR has a Leupold 1-8 CQBSS with the illuminated TMR reticle. I wish I'd gotten the Horus style reticle, but I bought it secondhand and didn't have a say in the matter.


I've noticed both the responders in this thread advocated getting two different rifles, whereas I was thinking of owning one "jack of all trades master of none" rifle. I will think about this.

And a picture, because as much as I am second guessing my purchase, the SCAR is a cool rifle:

hlLX0sg.jpg


I specifically mentioned a dedicated distance gun because it seemed (maybe wrongly) that was a capability which was important to you.

I may have commingled stopping vehicles with the issue of shooting people in and around vehicles into the larger arena of ‘vehicles.’ In any case the answer is still that bigger, heavier bullets work better. 5.56’s frangible nature which is a plus in CQB is a negative if the person you want to shoot is behind a car door or two. Ammunition selection can help but bigger bullets are still superior.

I agree the need to do that sort of thing is slim. However it seems like a capability you want.

Break
 

Ryan St.Jean

Regular Member
Ryan,

Why do you recommend a special distance rifle? When I said I might use it for mid-long range stuff, I don't mean that I intend to use the SCAR as a distance gun; I meant only to practice with it at distance. Understand my (and the rifle's) limitations and all that. Or is that misguided thinking?

I honestly do think here in rural Idaho, there's not a high probability of needing a "farmland defense" rifle for the ranch I hope someday to own. However, I am not excluding that possibility, there may come a time when I need to protect myself with something more robust than my G19.

In the podcast episode of 556 v 762, didn't Pressburg say vehicle stoppages came from loss of fluid via punctures in hose lines and 556 does a fine enough job? It's been a while since I listened to the podcast, and I have a pretty significant hearing impairment so I might be mis-remembering or have misheard what he said.”

I guess I’m confused now. If you aren’t worried about shooting long distances or at tasks (into/ through vehicles) where 5.56 is arguably weak then why did you go with .308 in the first place?
 

Ryan St.Jean

Regular Member
I guess I’m confused now. You don’t want to shoot particulatly long distances or through stuff, both of which are areas where .308 excels over 5.56. Typically people go with a .308 semi auto because 5.56 (or 7.63x39) isn’t meeting their needs.

What do you see this SCAR doing for you that any decent 5.56 AR wouldn’t?
 

Gypsy EDC

Regular Member
I guess I’m confused now. You don’t want to shoot particulatly long distances or through stuff, both of which are areas where .308 excels over 5.56. Typically people go with a .308 semi auto because 5.56 (or 7.63x39) isn’t meeting their needs.

What do you see this SCAR doing for you that any decent 5.56 AR wouldn’t?
Yeah the only time I break out the .308 at this point aside from for fun is for something that is bigger/ heavier/ thicker skinned (and I honestly have better performing cartridges / rifles to fill those roles) honestly if I had it to do over the only .30 cal rifle cartridge i would own is my 300 wsm. 6.5 gets it done
 

BooneGA

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
WARLORD
I have (and absolutely love) my SCAR 17S. However, it is rarely shot when compared to my 5.56 guns. It has a lot of capabilities that the 5.56 guns cant match - but for the vast majority of my uses the standard ARs shine. Additionally, I am able to practice and train at a fraction of the cost.

My attachment to the SCAR is mostly an emotional one after using it in combat for a few rotations. The attraction of the 5.56 guns is practicality and performance across a broader spectrum. If you aren't using the rifle to its fullest capabilities and in a role that 5.56 cannot meet I would 100% ditch it and move to a 5.56 gun. As much as I love the gun, the reasonable thing to do if you cant own both is to get the one that performs the most roles across the broadest spectrum.

Rick
 

Ryan St.Jean

Regular Member
If you aren't using the rifle to its fullest capabilities and in a role that 5.56 cannot meet I would 100% ditch it and move to a 5.56 gun. As much as I love the gun, the reasonable thing to do if you cant own both is to get the one that performs the most roles across the broadest spectrum.

Rick
This cuts to the decision point of this whole thread.
1) Is the SCAR 17 being used for anything a standard 5.56 AR can't do? If yes keep the SCAR. If no then buy an AR and

2) Can one afford keeping the SCAR 17 and buying an AR? Decide whether it is financially feasible/ prudent to keep the SCAR 17 as a cool thing in the safe or whether it should be sold to fund the AR and other more pressing needs.
 
GypsyEDC,

Know of any local spots where someone can shoot 600-800 meters?

BooneGA,

"It has a lot of capabilities that the 5.56 guns cant match" and "If you aren't using the rifle to its fullest capabilities and in a role that 5.56 cannot meet"

Please, elaborate. Aside from a few hundred meters of max effective range on the 556, I'm unaware of the other capabilities.

Ryan,

I don't see the point of keeping anything as a "cool thing in the safe", so I would sell the SCAR to fund a top-teir AR.
 

BooneGA

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
WARLORD
BooneGA,

"It has a lot of capabilities that the 5.56 guns cant match" and "If you aren't using the rifle to its fullest capabilities and in a role that 5.56 cannot meet"

Please, elaborate. Aside from a few hundred meters of max effective range on the 556, I'm unaware of the other capabilities.

Long range lethality. I carried a MK17 over a MK18 or 14.5 gun in Syria for just that fact. My mission set required engagement at ranges out to (and most often beyond) 800m. The shortest engagement we had was around 200m. A 5.56 gun is poorly suited to that role. Even with the 13" barrel hits out to 800 didn't require much skill and with the ammo we were running the MK17s were all shooting right around MOA. That isn't the case for the M4s and M855A1. If that isn't something that you absolutely NEED - run a 5.56 gun.

Rick
 
I will be thinking on this. Leaning towards selling the SCAR, question for me now is: do I shoot up the rest the 7.62 I have or try to sell it à la carte? I think I'll shoot it up :cool:

Anyway - thank you to all who responded, have a great weekend.
 

Ryan St.Jean

Regular Member
I will be thinking on this. Leaning towards selling the SCAR, question for me now is: do I shoot up the rest the 7.62 I have or try to sell it à la carte? I think I'll shoot it up :cool:

Anyway - thank you to all who responded, have a great weekend.

I think this is the right call.

The gun is used anyway so might as well have a good range trip before it goes.
 
ArmedNovelist,

Yes I would most likely mount a scope, though if I were to dedicate myself to the AR, I might also get a red dot style sight as well. Currently the SCAR has a Leupold 1-8 CQBSS with the illuminated TMR reticle. I wish I'd gotten the Horus style reticle, but I bought it secondhand and didn't have a say in the matter.


I've noticed both the responders in this thread advocated getting two different rifles, whereas I was thinking of owning one "jack of all trades master of none" rifle. I will think about this.

See, that's the thing. If you were to throw a 4-12x on an AR, you'd get the same thing as what you've got in your SCAR. A .308 with a 1-8x on it at a disadvantage for the longer ranges it can accomplish. So, technically, you have that "jack of all trades" now.

I wish I had the money to offer to you for the rifle, because it's a damn fine platform. Overall, for the right price, a nice BCM Lightweight, a scope and some ammo would be in your ballpark. But, again, that's just my preference of brands.
 
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