Rimefires in Real Life?

[Seth Thompson]

I use a suppressed .22 LR GSG1911, with an old-school Gemtech Outback can, for discreet animal control, while on duty. I am authorized by policy to do so, and it's pretty darn useful. It allows me to use low-velocity, precision shots, in a much more controlled (and quiet) way than my duty pistol.

On a previous LE job, I once scragged a wounded deer on someone's front lawn, in the middle of a small town, in broad daylight, without any fuss or ruckus being raised by the citizenry.

I used the same gun as a trainer stand-in for my duty gun, when I still carried a 1911, but that's ancient history, now. I wouldn't consider it seriously as a defensive gun, due to the aforementioned reliability issues. If I were going to equip someone with a .22 for defense, due to physical limitations, I'd pick a revolver with as many shots as possible in the cylinder.

 

[Sunshine_Shooter]

...If I were going to equip someone with a .22 for defense, due to physical limitations, I'd pick a revolver with as many shots as possible in the cylinder.

Considering that most .22lr semi-autos have 10 or 12 round mags, and you can get 10-round .22lr revolvers, that's not a bad idea by any means. I'm filing this one away for future use.

 

[Simms65]

Raoul I do the same. I keep a M&P 22 with a can in my cruiser and use it to put down injured animals. It has started quite a few good conversations about NFA stuff with people.

 

[5150Magnet]

Has anyone compared side by side the rate of failures between a Ruger 10/22 and S&W MP15-22? I always heard the latter tended to be more finicky with ammunition than the former. In no way am I countering to what's been said (do not rely on a .22LR for self-defense when there are better options), but I was curious for many out there who probably have both platforms if they've noticed side-by-side using those rifles with the same ammunition if one or the other has had more issues with FTE or FTF.

 

[Sunshine_Shooter]

Has anyone compared side by side the rate of failures between a Ruger 10/22 and S&W MP15-22? I always heard the latter tended to be more finicky with ammunition than the former. In no way am I countering to what's been said (do not rely on a .22LR for self-defense when there are better options), but I was curious for many out there who probably have both platforms if they've noticed side-by-side using those rifles with the same ammunition if one or the other has had more issues with FTE or FTF.

Appleseed banned all M&P 15-22s from their events for a while due to out-of-battery detonations. I don't know if they've lifted the ban, but the M&P 15-22 was the only gun they banned due to malfunctions.

 

[Seth Thompson]

To take the discussion in a slightly different direction, check out some of the stuff Greg Ellefritz posted on his blog about recent wound ballistic results for .22 Magnums. He maintains that .22 Mag. from a small revolver can be a more effective alternative to .22LR, for people who can't shoot centerfire pistols, for whatever reason.

 

[Bub]

If you check out Ballistics by the Inch you can compare 22lr to 22 wmr. The 22 wmr has a slight advantage over 22lr, but not as much as expected out of the short barrels. Claude Werner has made some positive comments about us regular ( non le) folks using 22lr. I would probably just stick with 22lr and practice a lot. I have a S&W 317 3" barrel 22lr I carry around the farm and a 617 I use for target shooting and they do have there place. However I have found rimfire revolvers to be a little more temperamental than centerfire revolvers, especially the lightweight models.

 

[Mcameron]

From a reliability standpoint... modern .22LR is actually really good.

I’m a smallbore shooter....I’ve easily shot 1/4 million rounds of rimfire between completion, testing, practice.... and just having fun at the range....with quality ammo( eley, lapua, etc) I can count the number of duds I’ve had on one hand.

With bulk box .22 my FTF rate is probably 2x what I get if of Tula 9mm...still not terrible

I think a lot of the reliability issues comes from Poorly designed guns and failure to clean them.

But from a reliability stand point, I wouldn’t have hesitation on using something like a 10/22 with a high velocity round.


Now from a lethality standpoint and it’s potential use as a defensive weapon...ide say its applications are limited....but it’s Hardly useless.

One place I could see it being useful would be for home defense in an Apt building.....something like a suppressed SBR would be handy and quiet.... and .22 out of a shorter barrel would lose a lot of velocity going through drywall, you’d still have potential for penetration... but it would be a lot less than even 9mm.

And as said before, people who for whatever reason, simply cannot handle the recoil of a Centerfire cartridge.... something like a 10 shot .22 revolver would be a great option

 

[Lutz501]

Just wondering what people's thoughts are on this after listening to the mouse guns modcast. Seemed like the main topic was .22lr and in a defensive role. I found a few videos of people testing .22lr in gel out of pistols and rifles and it seems with decent quality ammo it's not difficult to find something that can get 12-15". Obviously no expansion though...

Thoughts?

 

[Sunshine_Shooter]

Just wondering what people's thoughts are on this after listening to the mouse guns modcast.
[...]
Thoughts?

It definitely made me rethink rimfire for serious social use, and consider why we consider certain calibers to be good or bad. I'll be less likely to dissuade people from carrying .22lr in the future.

 

[Bub]

I listened to parts of the modcast and the complete thing on iTunes the next day. The .22lr seems to be, as Lutz501 pointed out above, the default mousegun round. The reasons included easy to use, abundant cheap ammo supply to practice, modern .22 improved reliability, and the lack of or limited options in .32 caliber guns and ammo. Another plus as Claude Werner pointed out is in a revolver you typically get 8 rounds vs 5 in .38 special. Both Ruger and Smith & Wesson make 8 shot .22lr revolvers. The .25acp while cute brings very little to the table. Personally I would like to see more small high quality .22lr handguns on the market.

 

[William Turner]

Has anyone compared side by side the rate of failures between a Ruger 10/22 and S&W MP15-22? I always heard the latter tended to be more finicky with ammunition than the former. In no way am I countering to what's been said (do not rely on a .22LR for self-defense when there are better options), but I was curious for many out there who probably have both platforms if they've noticed side-by-side using those rifles with the same ammunition if one or the other has had more issues with FTE or FTF.

I have both and haven't noticed much if any difference in reliability between my M&P 15-22 and any of my 10-22's when using factory mags. Some of the cheaper 10-22 aftermarket mags(Butler Creek Hot Lips) have been less than 100% but that's comparing apples to oranges.

 

[Lutz501]

Sorry for the thread necro but I recently spent some time doing some research and found some info I thought might be interesting or worth while to you all.

Two different videos about .22 usage. The first is a Lucky Gunner video which I have found to be a very informative and reliable source. Interesting look at the reliability of .22. The second is a video discussing the ballistic performance of various .22 rounds out of a NAA revolver. While I am not a fan of the NAA revolver it shows that even out of that tiny barrel you can get surprising results.