Red dot + Magnifier or LPVO?

Sunshine_Shooter

Established
Network Support I
#1
I'm competing in Desert Brutality 2019 in Feb, and need some input. Should I run a LPVO or a red dot + magnifier? I expect a decent amount of unconventional shooting positions, but also a significant amount of distance shooting.

I currently have a red dot, so I'd only need to get a magnifier to run that setup. Purchasing an LPVO is going to be a much more costly endeavor.

What are some good magnifiers? Looking for something above hobby grade.

If I go the LPVO route, it'll be with a Vortex PST II 1-6x24.

Does the scope's increased magnification make up for the increased cost and more finicky head positioning? Does the red dot's borderline-infinite eyebox and affordability make up for the lack of top-end power? I really need some advice from people who have experience with these setups.
 

ggammell

Established
Network Support I
#2
The difference in field of view alone made me go LPVO when I was deciding between the two. And act now you can a razor for $899 from Euro Optic.
 

Sunshine_Shooter

Established
Network Support I
#4
Unless you are flush with cash I wouldn’t go buy a whole new setup for one match.

What do you want the gun to have on it for the long run after the match?
This LPVO is my end goal setup. The magnifier would be for this match and would be a spare part after I eventually get my LPVO.

After thinking about this aspect, and some input from a guy I know, I think I've decided to go for the scope. The increased positive ID at distance is what really pushed me over the edge.
 

Grayman

Established
#6
Don’t discount the Steiner PX4. Yes you lose a little magnification but the quality / eye box / and dot brightness make it an easy winner for me. Oh and it’ll only run you $450
 
#7
One of the big drawbacks to magnifiers is that most come with only 3X magnification. Personally and I had a discussion with a gentleman recently regarding this issue is a 4X would be a better option for a magnifier. 3X on low side, 5X/6X too much, with 4X being just right. I think Sig is offering a 4X version currently, but I know nothing about them.
 

shoobe01

Regular Member
#8
Agree 4x is nicer for many situations. Fixed 4x was the default marksman scope for years in euro armies at least (think those Hensolts on the Sig and HK rifles) so it must have something to it.

I have one of the old EO 4x ones, and quite love the magnification and FOV, but it's old, discontinued, and has a wonky, heavy mount. Wish they'd just make a "G.44" as otherwise I LOVE the current generation of EO magnifiers.


I personally sold my LPVOs, and went 100% to RDS and magnifiers. But YMMV. My eyes suck, so it took a while to figure out what works for me as I got older.

My ideal, what would make this more easy to sell everyone on, would be that we get more magnifier capabilities:
  • More options for magnification. Offer not just 3, but also 2 and 4. Chicom knockoffs have this, all the way up to 6x. Seems like a good idea.
  • A zooming one. Why can't I get a 2-6x magnifier? No need for them to bottom out at 1x, as you can flip out of the way to get to 0 magnification.
  • Ranging marks. I say, like riflescopes, also with options. Offer a mildot set and a "hold this to a person, that's how far away" chart. Make it off in the lower left, so not in the way of aiming, doesn't imply it IS the aiming point.

But those are dreamy dreams. Now, back to your regularly scheduled topic.
 
#9
Classic example of "different strokes for different folks". I know shoobe knows his stuff, but I am in complete opposition of his stance....nearly 100% LPVO with a single Aimpoint/rifle setup...mostly kept for teaching. You don't know till you know...and then you'll probably change a few times before locking down on something.

Like some of my comments on people newer to the LPVO complaining about FOV of current models without having to struggle with older 1" tubes, 1.25-4x optics and what not, I think far too many overlook the 4x top end scopes for most realistic purposes. While its hard or not possible to spot hits on paper at 100, 200 in given conditions when you go back and start to do realistic practical at normal 5.56 ranges, it can do just fine.

That Steiner P4xi is a diamond in the rough. While there are several features that aren't idea, what you get looking through that optic for a mere $450ish is impressive. After that, you don't stop till you get to the Razor HD II 1-6x24 (in my opinion). However, we're getting to the time of year where you might as well wait and see what might potentially come after SHOT.
 

Sunshine_Shooter

Established
Network Support I
#12
Agree 4x is nicer for many situations. Fixed 4x was the default marksman scope for years in euro armies at least (think those Hensolts on the Sig and HK rifles) so it must have something to it.

I have one of the old EO 4x ones, and quite love the magnification and FOV, but it's old, discontinued, and has a wonky, heavy mount. Wish they'd just make a "G.44" as otherwise I LOVE the current generation of EO magnifiers.


I personally sold my LPVOs, and went 100% to RDS and magnifiers. But YMMV. My eyes suck, so it took a while to figure out what works for me as I got older.

My ideal, what would make this more easy to sell everyone on, would be that we get more magnifier capabilities:
  • More options for magnification. Offer not just 3, but also 2 and 4. Chicom knockoffs have this, all the way up to 6x. Seems like a good idea.
  • A zooming one. Why can't I get a 2-6x magnifier? No need for them to bottom out at 1x, as you can flip out of the way to get to 0 magnification.
  • Ranging marks. I say, like riflescopes, also with options. Offer a mildot set and a "hold this to a person, that's how far away" chart. Make it off in the lower left, so not in the way of aiming, doesn't imply it IS the aiming point.

But those are dreamy dreams. Now, back to your regularly scheduled topic.
You should consult for Aimpoint. Your optic would have every advantage of an LVPO plus the one thing that scopes will never have: the unlimited eye relief and eyebox when it's flipped to the side. It wouldn't be a hard sell, either, if the marketing was done correctly.
 
#13
You should consult for Aimpoint. Your optic would have every advantage of an LVPO plus the one thing that scopes will never have: the unlimited eye relief and eyebox when it's flipped to the side. It wouldn't be a hard sell, either, if the marketing was done correctly.
Sunshine, I think the Aimpoint gang are onto this already. One of the big reasons for the T2 was so they could be used with a magnifier more better as some folks would say. Also, they have a 6X, but it's just too much.
 

Sunshine_Shooter

Established
Network Support I
#14
Sunshine, I think the Aimpoint gang are onto this already. One of the big reasons for the T2 was so they could be used with a magnifier more better as some folks would say. Also, they have a 6X, but it's just too much.
I've yet to see a 2x-6x flip-to-side magnifier.
 

Oak City Tactics

Moderator
Moderator
#15
Aimpoint 6x is not just expensive, it’s long. I think when they designed the original 3x they kinda set the parameter for the accepted form factor. People want what ever magnification it is to be that size.