If the Suarez slides are so good then why do you feel the need to "go all in" and have a slide custom milled? I'm asking because I'm debating the milling or SI slide for my first RMR equipped G19 right now
RDS on pistols
- Thread starter Matt Landfair
- Start date
Yo_Adrian_G
Amateur
I've been running RMR's on a few of my Glocks and 1 M&P for a while now and I have heard good things about the new Deltapoint pro. Does anyone have experience with the deltapoint Pro and how do you feel about the Ironside provided with it?
I posted this a while back. The photos seem to not be working, but, the text still stands: https://primaryandsecondary.com/for...deltapoint-pro-direct-milled.2276/#post-15487
I like the optic, other than how thick it is. The thickness means you have to have either a stupidly tall set of BUIS (which tend to snag on things), OR you run without.
The adjustable rear BUIS is clever, but adds more bulk and cost. Not sure I'd do it again honestly, versus just having the optic mounted a tick in front of the rear dovetail.
Yo_Adrian_G
Amateur
Thanks!
Yondering
Regular Member
I like the clearer glass and wider view of the DP Pro compared to the RMR, but don't like the thicker/taller body as mentioned above. Honestly I preferred the size/profile of the original Deltapoint much better.
Also, the DP Pro is just a tiny bit long for mounting on a Glock with the stock rear dovetail intact; the safety plunger hole is the limiting constraint at the front. It can be done though.
Also, the DP Pro is just a tiny bit long for mounting on a Glock with the stock rear dovetail intact; the safety plunger hole is the limiting constraint at the front. It can be done though.
chrischris
Amateur
I have searched but can't seem to locate it.... I'm looking for an old PDF someone did within an agency that compared various RMRs and setups. Can anyone help point me to this resource?
GTF425
Newbie
I have an RM09 on a G19. My initial experience with RDS' on pistols was with an RM01 and I never had a complaint. However, given this will be ran with NODs, I wanted to have control over the brightness. The 1 MOA dot, when set bright enough for outdoor use, is more than easy enough to pick up and is crisp and precise under NODs. I went back and forth between getting the 1 or 3.25 MOA RMR, and honestly I can't tell the difference unless I have the brightness down very low.
And just because it makes me laugh...the DickButt Special.
And just because it makes me laugh...the DickButt Special.
http://blog.krtraining.com/red-dot-study-key-points/
The above link is a very good new discussion of handgun slide mounted RDS use and is generally in concordance with what we experienced in our LE service handgun RDS study which began in 2010, the results of which have been reported repeatedly since then, as shown in a summary quote of our study below:
"Lessons Learned After 5 Years of RDS Use On Service Pistols
For shooters who have difficulty visualizing standard iron sights, a pistol RDS definitely improves hit probability, especially at longer ranges. The use of RDS on all weapon systems (handgun, SMG/PDW, shotgun, rifle) creates a common sight picture across platforms. The RDS allows the shooter to remain fully focused on the threat and not have to transition back to the front sight prior to firing—this is an incredibly SIGNIFICANT factor in the real world!
Under 12-15 yards, conventional iron sights are generally are faster for most shooters; beyond that, a handgun with an RDS is tough to beat. A shooter is doing quite well, if when using a slide mounted RDS equipped handgun, they can EQUAL conventional iron sight performance during rapid fire shooting from around 12 yards and closer.
The real benefits of a pistol with slide mounted RDS occurs at longer ranges, with movement of the shooter or target, and in low light. Shooting at moving targets and when shooting on the move is dramatically easier with an RDS. When engaging a hostile target in a larger open area such as a school, shopping mall, airport, etc... that requires extensive movement and long shots, an RDS offers a substantial advantage over conventional iron sights based on numerous timed and scored practice scenarios. An RDS also offers advantages in reduced light shooting, as an RDS equipped pistol completely eclipses conventional tritium sights for low light shooting and is unsurpassed when using night vision.
Initially the larger 6-8 MOA size red dots were preferred, however, with increased experience using handgun RDS, the smaller 2-4 MOA dot size became more appealing for many shooters, especially for longer range targets. The ability to easily turn the dot off to allow practice with the BIS was appreciated. Likewise having the option to switch from auto intensity to manually adjusting dot brightness to optimize it for different lighting conditions was preferred. Much like with an AR15, awareness of the dot offset from the bore must be maintained at closer ranges under 10 yards or so. A 25 yard zero was used on all handgun RDS, allowing hits from 0-100 yards. Many shooters noted that it took several thousand presentations before they became fully comfortable with rapid target acquisition using the RDS. Almost all shooters quickly achieved large gains in their accuracy scores at 25 yards and farther. (Mounting RDS on inert training pistols like the SIRT can speed-up initial acclimatization to RDS equipped pistols and help new end-users more rapidly develop proficiency.)
Several older officers suffering from middle aged presbyopia had been plagued with steadily diminishing qualification scores over the past several years. After adopting an RDS equipped pistol they noticed a dramatic increase in their scores—some shooting better than they had 25 years earlier.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- For those with vision issues, an RDS equipped handgun can be the answer.
-- For certain specific operational requirements and mission sets, a handgun mounted RDS is an excellent tool, particularly for long range engagements and when using NV.
-- The ability to remain fully focused on the threat and not have to transition back to the front sight prior to shooting is a key advantage of a pistol with RDS for LE use.
-- Slide mounted, reciprocating RDS are harder to shoot and less durable than stationary, frame mounted optics.
If you don't need an RDS, you don't have to use one; on the other hand, those who do use them, find them quite helpful in many respects."
The above link is a very good new discussion of handgun slide mounted RDS use and is generally in concordance with what we experienced in our LE service handgun RDS study which began in 2010, the results of which have been reported repeatedly since then, as shown in a summary quote of our study below:
"Lessons Learned After 5 Years of RDS Use On Service Pistols
For shooters who have difficulty visualizing standard iron sights, a pistol RDS definitely improves hit probability, especially at longer ranges. The use of RDS on all weapon systems (handgun, SMG/PDW, shotgun, rifle) creates a common sight picture across platforms. The RDS allows the shooter to remain fully focused on the threat and not have to transition back to the front sight prior to firing—this is an incredibly SIGNIFICANT factor in the real world!
Under 12-15 yards, conventional iron sights are generally are faster for most shooters; beyond that, a handgun with an RDS is tough to beat. A shooter is doing quite well, if when using a slide mounted RDS equipped handgun, they can EQUAL conventional iron sight performance during rapid fire shooting from around 12 yards and closer.
The real benefits of a pistol with slide mounted RDS occurs at longer ranges, with movement of the shooter or target, and in low light. Shooting at moving targets and when shooting on the move is dramatically easier with an RDS. When engaging a hostile target in a larger open area such as a school, shopping mall, airport, etc... that requires extensive movement and long shots, an RDS offers a substantial advantage over conventional iron sights based on numerous timed and scored practice scenarios. An RDS also offers advantages in reduced light shooting, as an RDS equipped pistol completely eclipses conventional tritium sights for low light shooting and is unsurpassed when using night vision.
Initially the larger 6-8 MOA size red dots were preferred, however, with increased experience using handgun RDS, the smaller 2-4 MOA dot size became more appealing for many shooters, especially for longer range targets. The ability to easily turn the dot off to allow practice with the BIS was appreciated. Likewise having the option to switch from auto intensity to manually adjusting dot brightness to optimize it for different lighting conditions was preferred. Much like with an AR15, awareness of the dot offset from the bore must be maintained at closer ranges under 10 yards or so. A 25 yard zero was used on all handgun RDS, allowing hits from 0-100 yards. Many shooters noted that it took several thousand presentations before they became fully comfortable with rapid target acquisition using the RDS. Almost all shooters quickly achieved large gains in their accuracy scores at 25 yards and farther. (Mounting RDS on inert training pistols like the SIRT can speed-up initial acclimatization to RDS equipped pistols and help new end-users more rapidly develop proficiency.)
Several older officers suffering from middle aged presbyopia had been plagued with steadily diminishing qualification scores over the past several years. After adopting an RDS equipped pistol they noticed a dramatic increase in their scores—some shooting better than they had 25 years earlier.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- For those with vision issues, an RDS equipped handgun can be the answer.
-- For certain specific operational requirements and mission sets, a handgun mounted RDS is an excellent tool, particularly for long range engagements and when using NV.
-- The ability to remain fully focused on the threat and not have to transition back to the front sight prior to shooting is a key advantage of a pistol with RDS for LE use.
-- Slide mounted, reciprocating RDS are harder to shoot and less durable than stationary, frame mounted optics.
If you don't need an RDS, you don't have to use one; on the other hand, those who do use them, find them quite helpful in many respects."
KiloHotelWhiskey13
Newbie
FYI: Cabela's is currently selling Trijicon RMRs for $359. They're on back order right now but estimated ship date is 1-2 weeks.
Sunshine_Shooter
Established
They clearing out stock in anticipation of RMR gen2's coming in soon?
KiloHotelWhiskey13
Newbie
Seems to be the case. Talked to the Trijicon Rep at ADS Federal Range Day last week & he suggested to buy @ this price as they'd probably end up replacing with the updated version if you have issues, so it's a win either way. I ordered a second one for my G17.
voodoo_man
Established
Wrote an opinion article on RDS mounted pistols stemming from personal experience and understanding of practical application...
Short answer is the average person should invest more time into the iron sight platform they already have unless they absolutely require an RDS on their pistol for some tangible purpose. My personal experience has shown that I am faster with iron sights because I have trained with iron sights more than RMR's, the same could probably be said for the majority of people. The time investment may not be worth it for the average person who carries a pistol, then again you may be someone who needs an RDS because of various specific factors. Either way, heavy consideration of pro/con's should be made prior to such a time investment is committed.
http://www.vdmsr.com/2017/06/optic-mounted-pistols-and-concepts-in.html
Short answer is the average person should invest more time into the iron sight platform they already have unless they absolutely require an RDS on their pistol for some tangible purpose. My personal experience has shown that I am faster with iron sights because I have trained with iron sights more than RMR's, the same could probably be said for the majority of people. The time investment may not be worth it for the average person who carries a pistol, then again you may be someone who needs an RDS because of various specific factors. Either way, heavy consideration of pro/con's should be made prior to such a time investment is committed.
http://www.vdmsr.com/2017/06/optic-mounted-pistols-and-concepts-in.html
Been running a SHIELD SIGHTS RMS on my G19. I prefer it to a trijicon RMR. The sight feels less cramped without those cat ears. Its extremely low profile and its less expensive and the auto adjustment is spot on. leaps and bounds better than my old JPoint. I've tested it in low light to bright light and bright into low and it is always manageable. You also do not need to remove the sight to replace the battery as it just slides out of the side. The one issue I did have is the company got a batch of battery drawers that were slightly over sized causing the battery to lose contact and they had to send me replacements. They sent two new ones and now the sight works just fine.
tylerw02
Regular Member
$314 if you use a cabelas card last week. I wonder, will they be getting more type 1 RMRs or will they send out the new type 2?
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KentuckyWindage
Newbie
Just picked up two more from cabelas , thanks for the info.