Questions on Modcast 222: Non Standard Defensive Weapons

user12358

Regular Member
#21
Also, anyone who has trained with me or followed any of my stuff knows what I consider high chest and head “hits”. It’s the size of a large orange in both and anything hit outside that will likely require more and we treat it as a miss....just a miss contained in the body if it is in meat but not in that fist size area.
We don't disagree on what you need to hit to stop someone but words do mean things. Assuming this whole episode was mostly for normal earth people then they probably have never actually seen inside of a human body, especially one that has been hit with projectiles or is being dissected alongside explanation from a medical professional about what is working inside and what trauma to various areas leads to. If you asked the average person where they needed to hit to score a good hit on the upper chest or head they would most likely just fold their silhouette target in half, not circle the heart and brain stem and they wouldn't know that blowing the heart out is just the most rapid way to cause hypovolemic shock but that it is certainly not instant.

I have had two people that I have pointed to the modcasts and as good place to build a foundation of learning or even just keep the gears turning ask me about that comment because it sounded of to them. The have little to no clue who you are and don't know your standard for hits but they know what upper chest and head means and that it didn't jive with what they knew from experience or had previously learned.

I don't believe labeling you a fudd is appropriate, I am not saying that you can't shoot, and will readily admit that you have expertise in areas I would not even be qualified to have a passing opinion about. I don't have anything to gain by posting here and am only doing it so that there is a knowledge source out there for people that don't have access to good information and I get the impression you are the same way. More honed information is always better.
 
#23
I posted the following on YouTube but didn't get any answers. Maybe I will have more luck here.

"At around 2:06:10 Chuck starts talking about how the FBI ballistics tests, which precipitated the agency's shift back to 9mm, were biased in favor of 9mm. I'm interested in learning more, but my Google-fu is failing me. Can anyone link an article on the tests that include which cartridges were tested and the results?"
 
#24
I’ve been catching up on some podcasts. I’m late to the party and just watched this one tonight. Very interesting subject matter, particularly considering my country’s/government’s plan to ban AR-15’s and other “Assault Styled” firearms. (The Prime Minister actually used that phrase). Such a ban here would impact anyone who lawfully owns such a firearm regardless if civilian, LEO, MIL or otherwise.

I’ll also second the post above and ask if chuck or anyone can speak to the FBI testing that brought about the change from .40 to 9mm. Sounds really interesting. I work for a service that made the same change to the 17M and wasn’t shy about sighting FBI testing as the chief source of info for both the choice in caliber and the choice in sidearm for the transition.
 
#25
I posted the following on YouTube but didn't get any answers. Maybe I will have more luck here.

"At around 2:06:10 Chuck starts talking about how the FBI ballistics tests, which precipitated the agency's shift back to 9mm, were biased in favor of 9mm. I'm interested in learning more, but my Google-fu is failing me. Can anyone link an article on the tests that include which cartridges were tested and the results?"
If you are LE, contact the FBI's firearms division through official channels. I don't know that the actual testing data is open to the public.
 

nyeti

Moderator
Moderator
#27
This is definitely back in my mind with the rioting. Not everyone had an AR, and when 20 looters are at the door..use what's at hand.
I have tried pointing out to folks that I carry stuff at home appropriate for dealing with large scale criminal activity. With that said, half this country lives in places where things like AR-15’s are not legal. On top of that....almost like I wasn’t make this up, those defending themselves are falling under FAR greater scrutiny than the rioters and looters. The places where a lot of this is going on are adversarial to individuals defending themselves and will throw the book at any perceived wrong doing. Now with a heavily restricted population with oppressive firearms laws the politicians and law makers in these places have emptied the jails and are trying to eliminate the police on a restricted population. It is insane.
 

MrMurphy

Regular Member
#28
Fully agree. Here there's an AR in every truck and house but not every place is like that.

A .30-30, 12ga bird gun and a good amount of rounds isn't ideal but they'll certainly work.
 
#30
I have tried pointing out to folks that I carry stuff at home appropriate for dealing with large scale criminal activity. With that said, half this country lives in places where things like AR-15’s are not legal. On top of that....almost like I wasn’t make this up, those defending themselves are falling under FAR greater scrutiny than the rioters and looters. The places where a lot of this is going on are adversarial to individuals defending themselves and will throw the book at any perceived wrong doing. Now with a heavily restricted population with oppressive firearms laws the politicians and law makers in these places have emptied the jails and are trying to eliminate the police on a restricted population. It is insane.
Agree very much with this. Sadly. My primary home defense choice is Beretta 1301 with some Aridus bits, and a Rem 870. Both have extended mag tubes, 6 shells on sidesaddle. I have about 500 nds of 00,and maybe 500 of birdshot for training classes so we aren’t shooting 00 the entire class. I would not shoot OUT of my house, least I can’t think of a reason why i would (legally), crowd of rioters or not, unless I had a reason to think we’re done for, the horde is coming in en masse. I guess if someone was shooting towards me in the house, that’s about the only reason I can think to defend by shooting outside the house. Certainly not for any properly. If me and my family are safe, I’ll hunker down where I can defend and wait on the cops to come do their thing.

So in my harry homeowner brain, I’m thinking 12 ga with FED Flight Control 8 or 9 pellet 00. I have an AR and few thousand rounds of ammo, I can’t see needing that from inside my home unless society broke completely, then we are well and truly fucked. I have thousands of 9mm round and a bunch of Glocks. I really want to carry on with training, be accomplished at tactics and capability, and never need any of it. I would not want to use deadly force to defend myself or another, but only a little less than I don’t want to have deadly force used against me or mine. As nyeti said, the deck is stacked against you... or can be, even if you do everything 100% correctly. Sad, but I fully believe use of deadly force is a roll of the legal dice.

Barry
 
#31
I have tried pointing out to folks that I carry stuff at home appropriate for dealing with large scale criminal activity. With that said, half this country lives in places where things like AR-15’s are not legal. On top of that....almost like I wasn’t make this up, those defending themselves are falling under FAR greater scrutiny than the rioters and looters. The places where a lot of this is going on are adversarial to individuals defending themselves and will throw the book at any perceived wrong doing. Now with a heavily restricted population with oppressive firearms laws the politicians and law makers in these places have emptied the jails and are trying to eliminate the police on a restricted population. It is insane.
Well at least if you eliminate the police, who is going to enforce firearms laws especially since they are state and not federal?

Sounds to me like a good way to have explosive growth of militia type organizations, community watch systems, and PMCs and ironically these groups won't have the safeguards and limits of police
 

nyeti

Moderator
Moderator
#32
“Sounds to me like a good way to have explosive growth of militia type organizations, community watch systems, and PMCs and ironically these groups won't have the safeguards and limits of police”
That is my prediction as well.