Pocket knives and Duty holsters.

locke1117

Newbie
So to start I am not LE or Mil. I just like guns and believe that having at least some gear to go with them is a good thing. I posted a while ago about what fixed blade to have on a battle belt (https://primaryandsecondary.com/for...est-fixed-blade-knife-for-a-battle-belt.6455/). The main reason I even have a fixed blade on my battle belt is because with my Safariland mid ride on it blocks my pocket knife, I carry strong side front pocket and have for probably about 20 years or as long as I've carried a pocket knife. My question is; should I start to carry in a different place like strong side back pocket? Or just deal with having to dig under my holster to get to my pocket knife?
 

Recondo2117

Amateur
I ran into the same issue. Carried a Benchmade griptillain in the front right pants pocket which my Safariland holster blocked. I kept a Gerber Center Drive mutli-tool in a Leatherman MOLLE pouch just in front of my holster on the belt for utility purposes. I mounted an issued Benchmade Nimravus to the left side of my cummerbund for a left hand draw as a GTFO tool, but 99% of the work I did was with the multi-tool. I kept the folder in my pocket as a last ditch pocket item, but it was never pulled out if I had kit on.
 

MrMurphy

Regular Member
I carry a Triage left front primarily as a tool and a Benchmade punch dagger on the left ankle for GTFO me if in a grapple.

I had to go for the Triage in a fight where a half cuffed guy went for my gun while I had him pinned to a wall. Ended up not stabbing him but it was a second away from it.
 

Fatboy

Established
Pocket knife under the holster with a deeper riding clip. I also push the holster forward some to clear the pocket. The spare knife is in my concealed carrier and can be accessed with either hand.
 

TCB

Amateur
I went to L front pocket carry many years ago for this same reason. Even off duty my folder rides there. Could be useful in a weapon retention situation as well? I have a Colonel blade behind my mag pouches for that reason on my Batbelt.
 
As a street cop, I carry my auto folder on my support side front pants pocket. If I had to deal with a gun grab, I would try to secure my weapon with my strong side and try to deploy my knife with my weak side hand.
 

Barry B

Regular Member
I forget who to attribute this to, but it is a guy that instructs knife/gun/hand to hand, has a youtube channel, deployed to sandbox type stuff, etc. Seems qualified from what I recall. Anyway, he addressed the subject of knives and he strongly recommends non-dominant side, horizontal on the belt fixed blade carry. The reason he advocates this is he ran a bunch of people through a scenario. You are in a fight, you have a folder, get it out and use it. He said he ran SF types, cops, trained civilians, untrained civilians through this scenario and not one deployed a folder once the fight started. I took that to heart.

I carry a folder religiously, dominant side, in case I need to cut something. Is it better than nothing? yes, but I'd use my collapsible baton waaaaay before a folder, and if I carry a fixed blade, it is only to poke someone in a clinch to make distance to get to my gun.

Barry
 

ggammell

Does not pass up an opportunity to criticize P&S.
I forget who to attribute this to, but it is a guy that instructs knife/gun/hand to hand, has a youtube channel, deployed to sandbox type stuff, etc. Seems qualified from what I recall. Anyway, he addressed the subject of knives and he strongly recommends non-dominant side, horizontal on the belt fixed blade carry. The reason he advocates this is he ran a bunch of people through a scenario. You are in a fight, you have a folder, get it out and use it. He said he ran SF types, cops, trained civilians, untrained civilians through this scenario and not one deployed a folder once the fight started. I took that to heart.

I carry a folder religiously, dominant side, in case I need to cut something. Is it better than nothing? yes, but I'd use my collapsible baton waaaaay before a folder, and if I carry a fixed blade, it is only to poke someone in a clinch to make distance to get to my gun.

Barry
Neat. How do you get a full size fixed blade horizontal across a duty belt where you have mags, cuffs, taser, radio and all the stuff?
 

Barry B

Regular Member
Neat. How do you get a full size fixed blade horizontal across a duty belt where you have mags, cuffs, taser, radio and all the stuff?

Didn't say full-size. And I didn't say it was for LEO. I stated what I do, why, and related the story about the trainer's experience that made me re-think IF I carry a knife for defensive use, why I carry what I carry and why I carry it where I carry it. And the OP states he is not LEO in his first sentence.

Barry
 

Redcat

Newbie
I have been a LEO for just a few years now. I wear a Cold Steel Safemaker 1 push dagger on my underbelt at about 11 o'clock. This puts it directly behind the double magazine pouch on my duty belt and allows me to draw it swiftly and securely with either hand. The factory sheath's belt clip has very poor retention and the sheath kept following the knife on the draw, so I made my own kydex sheath for it with a teklok attachment on the back. It is, compared to drawing a folder from your pocket, very easy to deploy the push dagger in a fight. I have used TAK brand trainers of it in sparring and drilling.

I use a multitool or a pair of cheap mini EMT shears as utility cutting tools. It doesn't matter where I keep them as long as it's convenient and out of the way. If the knife is meant to be a weapon, it needs to be in a more accessible place than under your holster in your pocket.

So if you want a weapon knife, make it a fixed blade and put it in an easily accessible place on your battle belt for a swift, easy draw. The draw should be grab and tug, with no straps to undo. A CKRT Hissatsu, a Cold Steel push dagger, or a Benchmade SOCP are my suggestions. Have another knife or multitool in either pocket for utility.

Knife placement should be the next best spot on your belt after you've placed your gun and ammo, with the intent to make it primarily a weak hand draw. Then your medical gear, then comms or whatever.

Just my .02, I haven't stabbed anybody.
 

Ben_170

Newbie
I'm a patrol deputy, I carry a kabar tdi inside my waist at the appendix position. I can access it with both hands. If you are in a position that you need a defensive knife, you likely only have one hand available and probably not your strong one. The tdi is my absolute backup since I have many tools to use first, including a back up revolver on my weak side.

I'm pretty confident I'd screw up using a folder in a shitty situation, so i keep it simple.

Waistband carry might make your life easier just to have the same set up duty belt or normal belt.
 

Redcat

Newbie
No not really. My knife is probable 95% utility use. As I'm not trained in any sort of knife fighting I'd be hesitant to even draw a knife for this reason.

I practice Escrima and do knife-on-knife sparring (blunt trainers with protective gear, obviously) occasionally. I think you're overestimating knife fighting as it applies to people with guns. It essentially boils down to retain your gun or stay clear of his muzzle, trap the arms and repeatedly stab.
 
I forget who to attribute this to, but it is a guy that instructs knife/gun/hand to hand, has a youtube channel, deployed to sandbox type stuff, etc. Seems qualified from what I recall. Anyway, he addressed the subject of knives and he strongly recommends non-dominant side, horizontal on the belt fixed blade carry. The reason he advocates this is he ran a bunch of people through a scenario. You are in a fight, you have a folder, get it out and use it. He said he ran SF types, cops, trained civilians, untrained civilians through this scenario and not one deployed a folder once the fight started. I took that to heart.

I carry a folder religiously, dominant side, in case I need to cut something. Is it better than nothing? yes, but I'd use my collapsible baton waaaaay before a folder, and if I carry a fixed blade, it is only to poke someone in a clinch to make distance to get to my gun.

Barry


Craig Douglas said essentially the same thing when I took EWO .. though he didn't say he's "never" seen it, it is very difficult to deploy a folder in any kind of entanglement. I carry a folder every day, but it's primary use is Amazon boxes.
 

Barry B

Regular Member
Craig Douglas said essentially the same thing when I took EWO .. though he didn't say he's "never" seen it, it is very difficult to deploy a folder in any kind of entanglement. I carry a folder every day, but it's primary use is Amazon boxes.

Yup. I took ECQC, and that if nothing else proves things go sideways for big folks, highly trained folks, etc. ECQC = whole lot of real world fail. Devastatingly honest force on force.
 
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