"Don't Fuck up!" Pre-drill
"Unfuck yourself!" Halfway through the drill.
Yes Pat.
"Unfuck yourself!" Halfway through the drill.
Yes Pat.
Ed L
Newbie
I had this in my notes. I think it is from a since discontinued Alumni Forum for EAG Tactical and Trident Concepts alumni. I think I added one or two things from online elsewhere and rearranged some of them. But they are all quotes from Pat.
THE WISDOM (?) OF PAT ROGERS
Gathered at a Carbine Operator's Course conducted by EAG Tactical Training at the Dane County LE Training Center 13-14-15 May 2007
"How long does a gunfight last? The rest of your life . . ."
“Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want.”
“Training is best conducted when the shooter and his gear are in synch. If any portion of that train rolls off the tracks, the overall quality of training- for all hands suffers.”
"While shooting is relatively easy to teach, fighting isn’t. This is especially true for those who have never experienced an emergency, been in a fist fight and whose exposure to a fight is theoretical.”
"With the current state of pussyness rampant in this country, most have never actually been in a fist fight.
This also includes most cops."
"Mindset issues have always been difficult, because only a few are blessed (blessed?) with that mean gene that permits them to fight other bipeds to the death without remorse. Not many can embrace the hate efficiently."
“Theory has a nasty habit of falling by the wayside when the enemy has a vote...”
“At close range, the ability to get a working gun in your hand is a priority. Unfortunately, a great many have difficulty in understanding this...”
"Get a working gun in your hand and then continue to shoot smelly bearded men wearing man dresses in the face.
"If you people could just FOLLOW DIRECTIONS ONE TIME my heart would soar like an eagle . . ."
"Don't be in a hurry to do it wrong."
“There are two ways to do most anything, right... and again.”
"Repetition is the mother of skill."
"Like everything, if a particular technique works for you, and it ALWAYS works, then you're good to go."
"If you're a cop, there are 5 major food groups: Eat in. Take out. Frozen. Pizza. Beer."
"In my career, between the NYPD and the Marine Corps, I had the opportunity to attend lots of training classes. Many of those classes dealt with firearms or tactics. A lot of the training I participated in was real good. However, I did discover that after you go to about 12 or 14 shooting classes, you find that you don't learn much new material from any one class, because your base of knowledge is already established."
"After you shoot guns enough, it starts to get boring. The point at which boredom sets in varies with the individual . . . "
"In a class, nobody works harder than me, and nobody has more fun than me. I believe in training hard and having a good time. HOWEVER I am a safety-Nazi in class. We have to be. We have no tolerance for careless behavior with firearms. I'm retired from both the Marine Corps and the NYPD, and in all those years of service I've only been actually shot once, and that was by a student . . ."
"When I was in Viet Nam at the war, I had the opportunity to be in an awkward situation a bunch of times, where we were advancing faster than the NVA could retreat, or we were retreating slower than they were advancing. Under such circumstances, we got a lot of shooting in. Of course, I was in the Marine Corps and in the Corps we really don't "retreat" -- we attack in another direction."
"As a short little Irishman, I have one advantage over you big tall guys. I can shoot on the move better than you, because my stride is shorter, and I don't bounce. I'm a more stable shooting platform"
"When do cops usually use rifles? Up close. When do soldiers or Marines in urban combat use rifles? Up close, across the room, or across the street. In that application, the carbine is almost used like a big and more powerful pistol. Under these circumstances, your most typical distance of engagement is probably going to be from point blank range out to about 30 yards."
"Since 1939, the average MAXIMUM DISTANCE of engagement for infantry is about 130 meters. Even for the military, most shooting with rifles or carbines is done at 100 meters or closer. If the enemy is more than 100 meters away, either you can't see them because they're using concealment, you can't see them because they're behind hard cover, or they're moving and you can't hit them. The employment of designated snipers is obviously different, but for your average operator, the primary marksmanship skill they really need is to be able to engage targets out to 100 meters."
"If you analyze the dynamics of a gunfight, whether it's the military or in law enforcement, the details are usually quite similar. The action is fast and furious for a short time. The survivors will retreat to cover and reload. The action may or may not continue on from there. In this circumstance, your first reload in the fight may be very important to your continued survival . . ."
Gunfights within the confines of structures are violent and exciting affairs. The ability to deliver rapid, accurate shots into a threat will determine whether you will have a war story or a Memorial Softball Field named after you.
"These guns don't have to be spotlessly clean. They need to be REALISTICALLY clean"
"Don't fall in love with your magazines. They're expendable items. If it doesn't work, get rid of it and buy another."
"If you steal material from one guy, that's called "plagiarism". If you steal it from a bunch of guys, it's called "research". I'm a researcher. I've never invented anything in my life, and I've never named anything after myself."
"Smart people often "over-drive their headlights". Because they have developed expertise in one area, they make the mistake of presuming they have expertise in other areas, when they really don't. Wisdom is knowing what you know, and knowing what you DON'T know."
"In training, there are primary skills and secondary skills. You need to know the difference, and you need to prioritize your training efforts to focus on the primary skills. None of us will probably ever have all the time or the money or the equipment or the ammo that we want, so you have to make some decisions about which skills you need to devote valuable training time and resources on."
"Well, that IS difficult, but NOT impossible."
"Make it work and drive on."
"The first rule of training is to survive the experience. When conducting training, you need to be safe in your procedures. You need to stay hydrated. You can't get over-heated, you can't freeze, and you can't get hypothermiated. If you have pre-existing injuries to your back or your knees or whatever, don't get hurt in training. Participate in those exercises you can do safely and without injury and press on."
"Here's my best advice. Buy a big goofy happy friendly dog. In the morning, walk your dog around the neighborhood and let all the kids play with your dog. That way, everybody in town will think that you're a hell of a nice guy, even if you aren't."
"If you see Osama bin Laden walking down the street in Washington, DC, and you draw your pistol and kill him and his two bodyguards, and then you shoot yourself reholstering, you're still an assclown."
"I like the idea of drugs. It kills a lot of useless people. Just not soon enough."
"I dunno'...seems simple to me."
"Courage is endurance, for one moment more..."
"The rapidity at which violence occurs stuns most."
Question: “How much ammunition do you need in a gunfight?"
Answer: “All of it."
We are soooo diminished.
THE WISDOM (?) OF PAT ROGERS
Gathered at a Carbine Operator's Course conducted by EAG Tactical Training at the Dane County LE Training Center 13-14-15 May 2007
"How long does a gunfight last? The rest of your life . . ."
“Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want.”
“Training is best conducted when the shooter and his gear are in synch. If any portion of that train rolls off the tracks, the overall quality of training- for all hands suffers.”
"While shooting is relatively easy to teach, fighting isn’t. This is especially true for those who have never experienced an emergency, been in a fist fight and whose exposure to a fight is theoretical.”
"With the current state of pussyness rampant in this country, most have never actually been in a fist fight.
This also includes most cops."
"Mindset issues have always been difficult, because only a few are blessed (blessed?) with that mean gene that permits them to fight other bipeds to the death without remorse. Not many can embrace the hate efficiently."
“Theory has a nasty habit of falling by the wayside when the enemy has a vote...”
“At close range, the ability to get a working gun in your hand is a priority. Unfortunately, a great many have difficulty in understanding this...”
"Get a working gun in your hand and then continue to shoot smelly bearded men wearing man dresses in the face.
"If you people could just FOLLOW DIRECTIONS ONE TIME my heart would soar like an eagle . . ."
"Don't be in a hurry to do it wrong."
“There are two ways to do most anything, right... and again.”
"Repetition is the mother of skill."
"Like everything, if a particular technique works for you, and it ALWAYS works, then you're good to go."
"If you're a cop, there are 5 major food groups: Eat in. Take out. Frozen. Pizza. Beer."
"In my career, between the NYPD and the Marine Corps, I had the opportunity to attend lots of training classes. Many of those classes dealt with firearms or tactics. A lot of the training I participated in was real good. However, I did discover that after you go to about 12 or 14 shooting classes, you find that you don't learn much new material from any one class, because your base of knowledge is already established."
"After you shoot guns enough, it starts to get boring. The point at which boredom sets in varies with the individual . . . "
"In a class, nobody works harder than me, and nobody has more fun than me. I believe in training hard and having a good time. HOWEVER I am a safety-Nazi in class. We have to be. We have no tolerance for careless behavior with firearms. I'm retired from both the Marine Corps and the NYPD, and in all those years of service I've only been actually shot once, and that was by a student . . ."
"When I was in Viet Nam at the war, I had the opportunity to be in an awkward situation a bunch of times, where we were advancing faster than the NVA could retreat, or we were retreating slower than they were advancing. Under such circumstances, we got a lot of shooting in. Of course, I was in the Marine Corps and in the Corps we really don't "retreat" -- we attack in another direction."
"As a short little Irishman, I have one advantage over you big tall guys. I can shoot on the move better than you, because my stride is shorter, and I don't bounce. I'm a more stable shooting platform"
"When do cops usually use rifles? Up close. When do soldiers or Marines in urban combat use rifles? Up close, across the room, or across the street. In that application, the carbine is almost used like a big and more powerful pistol. Under these circumstances, your most typical distance of engagement is probably going to be from point blank range out to about 30 yards."
"Since 1939, the average MAXIMUM DISTANCE of engagement for infantry is about 130 meters. Even for the military, most shooting with rifles or carbines is done at 100 meters or closer. If the enemy is more than 100 meters away, either you can't see them because they're using concealment, you can't see them because they're behind hard cover, or they're moving and you can't hit them. The employment of designated snipers is obviously different, but for your average operator, the primary marksmanship skill they really need is to be able to engage targets out to 100 meters."
"If you analyze the dynamics of a gunfight, whether it's the military or in law enforcement, the details are usually quite similar. The action is fast and furious for a short time. The survivors will retreat to cover and reload. The action may or may not continue on from there. In this circumstance, your first reload in the fight may be very important to your continued survival . . ."
Gunfights within the confines of structures are violent and exciting affairs. The ability to deliver rapid, accurate shots into a threat will determine whether you will have a war story or a Memorial Softball Field named after you.
"These guns don't have to be spotlessly clean. They need to be REALISTICALLY clean"
"Don't fall in love with your magazines. They're expendable items. If it doesn't work, get rid of it and buy another."
"If you steal material from one guy, that's called "plagiarism". If you steal it from a bunch of guys, it's called "research". I'm a researcher. I've never invented anything in my life, and I've never named anything after myself."
"Smart people often "over-drive their headlights". Because they have developed expertise in one area, they make the mistake of presuming they have expertise in other areas, when they really don't. Wisdom is knowing what you know, and knowing what you DON'T know."
"In training, there are primary skills and secondary skills. You need to know the difference, and you need to prioritize your training efforts to focus on the primary skills. None of us will probably ever have all the time or the money or the equipment or the ammo that we want, so you have to make some decisions about which skills you need to devote valuable training time and resources on."
"Well, that IS difficult, but NOT impossible."
"Make it work and drive on."
"The first rule of training is to survive the experience. When conducting training, you need to be safe in your procedures. You need to stay hydrated. You can't get over-heated, you can't freeze, and you can't get hypothermiated. If you have pre-existing injuries to your back or your knees or whatever, don't get hurt in training. Participate in those exercises you can do safely and without injury and press on."
"Here's my best advice. Buy a big goofy happy friendly dog. In the morning, walk your dog around the neighborhood and let all the kids play with your dog. That way, everybody in town will think that you're a hell of a nice guy, even if you aren't."
"If you see Osama bin Laden walking down the street in Washington, DC, and you draw your pistol and kill him and his two bodyguards, and then you shoot yourself reholstering, you're still an assclown."
"I like the idea of drugs. It kills a lot of useless people. Just not soon enough."
"I dunno'...seems simple to me."
"Courage is endurance, for one moment more..."
"The rapidity at which violence occurs stuns most."
Question: “How much ammunition do you need in a gunfight?"
Answer: “All of it."
We are soooo diminished.
Ed L
Newbie
And a variation of a quote that I had heard Pat use in a class:
Question: "How long do you have in a gunfight?"
Answer: "The rest of your life . . ."
“A lot of what we learn is written on the tombstones of others.”
I've trained with a bunch of people and Pat was my favorite. It was the things he taught, his way of explaining them. The stories he told were entertaining, often profound, and had relevance. His humor and personality were infectious. He was a been there and done that guy without being a chestbeater. His experience in the Marines, the NYPD, and as an instructor was unparalleled.
He had a unique way of relating to people whether it was constructive advice or telling someone to unfuck themself or just in general. After attending two classes with different bullpup style rifles he said to me, "You know, if you would just once attend a class with an M4 style rifle my heart would soar like an eagle." Well, the next two classes I did use an M4 variant.
Anyway, I don't have words.
Question: "How long do you have in a gunfight?"
Answer: "The rest of your life . . ."
“A lot of what we learn is written on the tombstones of others.”
I've trained with a bunch of people and Pat was my favorite. It was the things he taught, his way of explaining them. The stories he told were entertaining, often profound, and had relevance. His humor and personality were infectious. He was a been there and done that guy without being a chestbeater. His experience in the Marines, the NYPD, and as an instructor was unparalleled.
He had a unique way of relating to people whether it was constructive advice or telling someone to unfuck themself or just in general. After attending two classes with different bullpup style rifles he said to me, "You know, if you would just once attend a class with an M4 style rifle my heart would soar like an eagle." Well, the next two classes I did use an M4 variant.
Anyway, I don't have words.
Dan Easterday
Member
"Shoot it until it changes shape or catches fire!"
The single most important point I have learned is "Bring something back for the Lance Corporal." To me it means to find something everywhere you go to share with the least common denominator. Even if it is " don't do it this way."
Always give back to the asshole coming up behind you because you were him once.
Always give back to the asshole coming up behind you because you were him once.