Am I missing the thread about this somewhere? I see where Bernie Kierk is now up in arms after realizing that this will effect cops off duty and as some interpret call back units like SWAT who would drive their assigned vehicles with equipment home. If only Bernie were up in arms about the rights of the average law abiding citizen, officers would certainly not be in the same boat. As a cop I believe the rules should be the same for all of us.
NJ Magazine Ban
- Thread starter Oak City Tactics
- Start date
WAVandal
Regular Member
I don't think that thought about off-duty officers in SWAT, detectives, etc that are "on call". Nor did they even remotely consider the rights of the people. If we made the cops in the states with mag restrictions have to follow those same restrictions, I want believe those laws would disappear quickly.
NJ just made people with 10+ round mags felons. The state doesn't care.
NJ just made people with 10+ round mags felons. The state doesn't care.
Ryan St.Jean
Regular Member
Sorry but “They are off duty but on call” doesn’t really wash with me as an excuse. If they are legit on call and not allowed to consume alcohol or travel more than an hour away maybe, I could buy it. However not as a general blanket excuse to let cops ignore the law it is hog wash.
WAVandal
Regular Member
I never said it was an excuse to let cops ignore the law. I was, and apparently not good enough, detailing that when the law was made it was done with no aforethought to anything other than "10+ round mags are bad and going to get more people kilt in the streets". Some states with mag restrictions do have LEO exemptions. CO had to adjust their law when it was discovered there was no LEO exemption even for on duty cops. Finally, before anyone thinks otherwise, I disagree with any and all mag capacity restrictions and laws telling me what I can and can't own. I'll never enforce a mag capacity law.
I’ve not followed it closely because it’s not widely reported or talked about. I just happened across the Kierk article this morning. Am I to infer that they were just banned overnight with no registration period, no grandfathering, no time to dispose of legally, etc? At the stroke of midnight you’re a criminal? I had to source 10 rd mags a few years back just to travel through the NE by car with less worries under LEOSA. I’m all for making the rules apply across the board I must say. Maybe you guys up there should push for laws that require your cops to abide by the same weapons restrictions as the citizens. Might reduce your 2A losses some.
The Prizevendor
Newbie
I feel like the elephant in the room that no one is discussing is “who arrests the cops for being in violation?”. I’m sorry, but do you mean to tell me that all cops in Colorado went with restricted cap mags until the state legislature got their heads out of their collective ass to fix the statute with a duty exemption? I call bullshit. And that right there is the biggest problem. It definitely creates the perception of a different set of rules for them than the rest of us, and not just in the law itself but how it’s enforced. Does any cop that doesn’t comply have to fear prosecution, unlike the average citizen who will be cracked down on to make an example? I doubt it. Probably throw out some weak shit excuse about how it’s in the best interest of public safety or something. Draft some internal memo or something to support it.
I'll preface this with I'm a cop that believes in equal gun-rights and national reciprocity.
Anyway, how many arrests were made in Colorado of non-shitheads for magazine capacity? Also, remember, we (the cops) did not create the double standard, the politicians did. They don't exactly consult with us when passing laws.
So... in answer to your question of "who arrests the cops for being in violation?"... no one. But the cops also aren't arresting anyone for it.
I worry instead of maintaining attention on the main issue, moving focus on cops instead turns this into crabs in a bucket.
Gypsy EDC
Regular Member
Well really that's like asking who's going to arrest a cop that's a bank robber, murderer, or rapist...
Probably another cop.
I'm all in favor of non enforcement of anti constitutional mandates... and suspect many LEOs are too
If the law is bad for cops, it's bad for everyone. I'd rather see the law trashed, than have a LE exemption carved out.
Street cops aren't the ones enforcing these laws. I'm not warmed by the chest thumping "I'll ignore unconstitutional orders" crowd. A regular citizen will get jammed up when they use an unauthorized magazine in a self defense shooting, or have the gun taken into custody during an unrelated manner. Some anti-gun DA will be the one to charge and prosecute.
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Street cops aren't the ones enforcing these laws. I'm not warmed by the chest thumping "I'll ignore unconstitutional orders" crowd. A regular citizen will get jammed up when they use an unauthorized magazine in a self defense shooting, or have the gun taken into custody during an unrelated manner. Some anti-gun DA will be the one to charge and prosecute.
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Hush- I don’t know of a single cop that doesn’t agree with the statement that the whole thing should be scrapped.
But, apparently it isn’t going to be, yet
As far as where I work, the street cops ARE the ones enforcing the laws... or NOT enforcing the laws. The DA doesn’t prosecute cases that we don’t send them unless the County Detectives are the arresting agency and they have other things to worry about rather that how many rounds a magazine can hold.
Serious question- does anyone know of a magazine capacity case that was prosecuted against a non-shithead? I don’t live/work in a state that has such restrictions, but I haven’t heard of a single case. Cops on the street have discretion.
Another question: if I cannot currently fix the law outside of contacting my politicians and not enforcing laws that I see as unconstitutional, should I stop buying 30-rounders? Or, is it better that at least someone who thinks this is all horseshit has some?
I don’t feel like doing the it’s not “us vs them” discussion again. Let me be blunt... if the world begins to end, I’ll give you a fucking ammo can of full 30-round Pmags. I never stopped buying them even though politicians decided to fuck you.
But, apparently it isn’t going to be, yet
As far as where I work, the street cops ARE the ones enforcing the laws... or NOT enforcing the laws. The DA doesn’t prosecute cases that we don’t send them unless the County Detectives are the arresting agency and they have other things to worry about rather that how many rounds a magazine can hold.
Serious question- does anyone know of a magazine capacity case that was prosecuted against a non-shithead? I don’t live/work in a state that has such restrictions, but I haven’t heard of a single case. Cops on the street have discretion.
Another question: if I cannot currently fix the law outside of contacting my politicians and not enforcing laws that I see as unconstitutional, should I stop buying 30-rounders? Or, is it better that at least someone who thinks this is all horseshit has some?
I don’t feel like doing the it’s not “us vs them” discussion again. Let me be blunt... if the world begins to end, I’ll give you a fucking ammo can of full 30-round Pmags. I never stopped buying them even though politicians decided to fuck you.
The Prizevendor
Newbie
For starters, let’s be real clear that I’m not saying all cops are shitheads or anything. Certainly the guys that are in here having a discussion aren’t the problem. I’d like to think we’re all on the same side. Nor was I trying to take the discussion off track. My question was meant to be thought provoking. As to your point about “no one is being arrested for it”, that gives me absolutely nothing in the way of comfort when people can be the way the law is written. Forgive me if I don’t rely on your good will and discretion where my rights are concerned. I don’t live in a state where it’s an issue either...yet. The dynamics here are shifting in terms of demographics and politics. Frankly something culturally is happening nationwide. If it can happen here, it can happen anywhere. That’s why I presume we are here. And yes...in fucked up places behind enemy lines people that weren’t shitbirds have indeed been arrested and felony charges referred (not sure of the outcomes) for magazines. I thought I remembered a case of a veteran near Ft Drum being hemmed up for it. So I went to google it and in fact found a second case of a soldier there who was as well.
Solid copy.
I wasn’t trying to provide comfort, just perspective. There are, in fact, shithead cops who don’t get it and see everything as black and white. These laws absolutely positive suck and are, in my opinion, unconstitutional.
I just never want the conversation to somehow becomes the cops’ fault (I’m not saying that is what you’re doing). I’ve seen the conversation go that way. How many people live in “bam states”? Millions and yet there can only be a handful of cases found. Obviously zero cases is preferred and proper, but they are still incredibly rare and we are all on the same team by a large margin. Way more large capacity mags get “missed” than not by a long shot.
There is absolutely a culture shift going on and it’s being fueled by SSRI chewing, “everyone gets a trophy” people who don’t know how to lose shooting up their schools. But... even that is an anamoly. It doesn’t matter to politicians and the people that vote for them who make major life decisions based on emotion instead of fact.
These bans are born out of the incredibly rare failure of our mental health system that result in mass shootings. But, it’s easier to blame an inanimate object than to focus the blame internally and try to get your shit together. Which is yet another tenet of the current culture: it’s always someone else’s fault.
As a wise man once said: they’re looking for a hardware solution to a software problem.
I’m on my phone and didn’t proof read this. Hopefully it doesn’t suck.
The issue here in Massachusetts, is that shit heads are routinely arrested for illegal gun and high cap magazine possession. Those charges are always dismissed or plead down. Now, if you had a completely legal and licensed gun owner have his licence expire, and the local PD comes knocking to collect your guns (happens here) and that person is found in possession of a post ban high cap magazine there is a 100% chance they will be prosecuted for it, and face the potential 10 year prison sentence. The law is only applied to the law abiding here.
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The Prizevendor
Newbie
Bam! That right here is the issue, and the ongoing theme in all “gun control”. All it does is hurt the law abiding. Either because they comply and as a result don’t have the tools they may or may not need (but need is irrelevant, and the point is they should rightfully have them to level the playing field), or because they don’t comply and suffer the consequences. Meanwhile the shitbirds that actually do bad things will inevitably get pinched anyway, and pretty sure the bullshit weapons related charges are likely the smallest thing on the table anyway. The politicians get their conviction rates and get to virtue signal to the low information mouth breathers who voted for them.
Fatboy
Established
Gun control laws in any form are generally useless for protecting people. What politicians forget or ignore when they formulate their knee jerk reaction bills after a serious crime is that laws only affect (and effect) the law abiding.
Criminals are criminals for one very glaring reason- they ignore laws and do what they wish and generally have minimal consequences because the general public is weak willed.
Criminals are criminals for one very glaring reason- they ignore laws and do what they wish and generally have minimal consequences because the general public is weak willed.