Night vis mount and IR laser recomendations

JDRemf

JDRemf

Amateur
I am looking for recommendations and tips for mounting a single tube PVS-14 to an ACH, as well as an IR laser system for a 5.56 AR and SCAR 17. This is not for government duty use, so class 1 is the limit.
The ACH is drilled for a single hole, so I would rather not add holes if at all possible.
After researching mounts, i am leaning toward the Norotos AKA2 or INVG on a Universal shroud. For those with experience using both mounts, does either stand out as preferable, and why?
As for laser systems, i only have an order of preference.
1. IR laser, offset mount.
2. IR illuminator.
3. Visible laser.
As of right now, number 1 is required, but 2 and 3, are "nice to have".
Thanks in advance for your input.
 
thomaspara1

thomaspara1

Newbie
I have a Norotos Universal shroud on my helmet and it has held up really well over the course of two deployments and a lot of hard use, I suggest it as a decently priced shroud that is also very durable.
Norotos Universal Shroud- http://tnvc.com/shop/norotos-universal-shroud/

As for Class 1 laser there are some great options out there now and two of the most notable, the ATPIAL-C from L3/Insight, and the DBAL-A3 from Steiner. Both of these devices have been proven to be durable as well as quality items. I have used both in class 3 form within the military, and have been impressed with each unit's performance. The best part of both of these units, is that they not only have an IR laser, but also a visible and IR illuminator within a small package.

ATPIAL-C- http://tnvc.com/shop/l3-insight-atpial-c-class1-ir-laser/

DBAL-A3- http://tnvc.com/shop/steiner-dbal-a3-class13r-ir-laser/
 
DrRansom

DrRansom

Newbie
If you don't care about the downrange signature, the DBAL-D2 is a fantastic option. My criteria for the unit:
- Must have focusable illuminator
- Must have laser aiming point
- Must be able to activate them both at the same time, preferably with a switch.

The D2 does all of this, and has a very powerful illuminator. I think the DBAL-A3 also stands to be a contender. The ATPIAL-C, though, I was excited about until I found out about the illuminator - not being able to focus the illuminator means that it may not be very applicable at certain ranges; I wasn't willing to spend the money to find out. Some of the reviews I've read have echoed my concerns, but I've yet to get a firsthand account of the device.

Mounting of the tube is budget-dependent. How much you gonna spend on the mount?
 
Chad H/BC520

Chad H/BC520

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
How often do you anticipate using this setup for your purposes? From what you initially posted, I think I would focus on some form of USGI standard mount, something on the back of the helmet to provide your counterweight, and them focus the rest of the budget on the best laser possible to give you 1,2,and 3. I do not have much for experience with the Class 1 lasers, as my MFAL's are more than that, but I would be looking at the civilian PEQ15 and the new Steiner/LDI DBAL that gives you all those options. I feel that you need a visible laser for anything except strict govt work that forces you to only work under NODS, otherwise an IR-only laser is largely a waste of space as it is otherwise so limited. Anything you have left over from the budget you can look at a more comfortable helmet than a standard ACH.
 
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Gunslinger
Staff member
Moderator
WARLORD
The benifits of an IR illuminator cannot be understated when operating in an ambient light environment. You want to chase some shit bag down in the woods? You can get by with a IR pointer/laser. As soon as you take that item into an urban area *cough* NIGHTIME FLANK AND BACKSIDE SECURITY ON A BARRICADED GUNMAN*cough* house lights, street lights, flood light, patrol car light bars, etc etc. ALL win the battle of providing light for your nods, this means if you want to see in the shadows like under the low hanging tree in the back yard or the open window into an abandoned home with no power, you are gonna have to throw IR energy into the areas that you want to look at.

IR floods provide this ability......

I rolled dirty in this place once with an MP5SD that had an M6X under it. The M6X that had an incandescent bulk with an IR filter and an IR laser.

Bottom line was that filtered white light was weak sauce and could not "burn through" any of the shadows created by the ambient lighting of the city scape. I was standing there with the best NVGS available and I couldn't see many things in my environment.

I told myself that day that I would not ever go out again without a laser that had a powerful IR flood.
 
Chad H/BC520

Chad H/BC520

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
What are some specs on what makes a powerful enough flood to you? Any idea if modern LED with higher outputs would be different with the IR filter? I know filtered is still not going to be ideal, but I also know it might be easier and doable for an LEO to do that versus another mounted lighting system on the weapon. Are current IR floods on LA5/PEQ15's enough?
 
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Gunslinger
Staff member
Moderator
WARLORD
Chad.... sorry. I know what I know when I see shit, but I had to research numbers to articulate my argument.

IR illumination is NOT IR illumination when it comes to power. So as a general rule, led to led and laser to laser power applies.

So what I mean is that when we talk about MW of power from a flood on a laser they are comparable. When we talk about IR flashlights then MW of IR power mean something totally different.

So the LA-5 which is the gold standard (biased I was in the design review for it too...) rocks an 80MW of flood power. (LASER)

A 6 volt scout with vampire head rocks 120MW of IR energy (LED)

So now we have to talk about projecting that IR energy at distance in high light (urban). The LED fucking rocks inside a house and out performs the LA5, but if I apply the simple mission of moving to breach in an urban environment, the HIGHER powered LED vampire cannot "throw" it's superior powered LED IR light as far as a diffused IR laser of the LA5. So at a mere 50 meters away an enemy shooter could stand just 5 or 6 feet back in a room which is next to a street light and if your swat team (NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU SPEND ON GOGGLES) will NOT be able to see that shooter as the make their approach.
 
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Gunslinger
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WARLORD
LED'S give a bright wide illumination, and diffused 3B laser energy can be adjusted to wide angle OR highly focused out to hundreds of meters beyond what a "brighter" flashlight can do.
 
JDRemf

JDRemf

Amateur
Thank you for some insight into the value of a good ir illuminator.
Dr.Ransom, to answer your question on what I am looking to spend on a mount, no more than I have to. I am fully aware that the two choices I mentioned in the OP run just shy, and slightly more than 5 bills on the retail side. I am prepared to spend that if necessary, but I know there are deals out there, particularly where the AKA2 is concerned.
As for a more comfortable brain bucket than the ACH, I come from the the time of the PASGT with leather head band. The ACH may not be comfy, but it feels pretty awesome to me with a mix of Skydex and Oregon Aero pads, plus my Lib II's tuck in perfectly.
 
DrRansom

DrRansom

Newbie
My personal unit right now is a PVS-14 on a Wilcox G24, and while steady, it doesn't get as close to my eye as I'd like. This is on an Ops Core ballistic or a Team Wendy LTP. After some research, it seems that the INVG mount may solve that problem, and may be the better mount for the single tube.
 
english kanigit

english kanigit

Tactical Crossfit
Question: what benefit would be gained in domestic LE use by removing that safety lockout and having access to the full power of a class 3 IR laser?

Is there an actual use here aside from free lazik for people down range of you?

Ek
 
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Gunslinger
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WARLORD
Power. It's always better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. I would not want to operate in a modern cityscape without a high power IR illuminator.
 
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Gunslinger
Staff member
Moderator
WARLORD
I've been around 3B lasers for over 20 years, and my one good eye feels great! Just kidding, I think this eye safe stuff is over rated. If I snap shoot an OPFOR with a high power laser the chances that I'm going to burn his eyes out are very minimal. Now if that same OPFOR guy comes out with his hands up and I'm covering them for an extended period while my buddies go hands on with them, then yeah I'm gonna power down.

Don't hold a high beam on someone's face for more than a second or two and you will be fine..... how long does it take to pew pew?
 
CrazyDoc

CrazyDoc

Amateur
Roland, have you used the TNVC Torch Pro? If so how does that stand up to throwing use able IR light in shadows?


Toole
 
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