Needing Some Advise

Doug Ramer

Doug Ramer

Newbie
First let me say I’m new to forum and I hope I’m posting in the right spot, if not please let me know.

I have a series of questions all pertaining to SBR’s, Suppressors and a Gun Trust. My ultimate goal is to build a suppressed SBR. All of my other AR’s are 5.56, so I originally thought I would build this in 5.56 too. But since then I’ve had a few people tell me that I would be better off going 300BLK on a SBR. Definitely looking for some feedback on 5.56 vs. 300 for SBR.

I wanted to start with a blank canvas so I ordered a stripped lower receiver this morning, I went with a RRA. Would you suggest a single stage or 2 stage trigger? I would assume single since its going to be SBR?

My next step is to establish a NFA Gun Trust; looks like I can take care of that online. I’ve looked at silencerco and guntrustguru. Does anyone have any personal experience with this or can recommend a good site to use?

Once I have the Trust established and the the lower comes in I will apply for both the SBR and suppressor at the same time. I think I want want a muli-cal suppressor. Any thoughts?
 
275RLTW

275RLTW

Regular Member
The lower is what is registered as an SBR. The upper is just an accessory. If the SBR lower is designated "multi caliber" then you can put 556 or 300BLK uppers on it as you wish.
 
Doug Ramer

Doug Ramer

Newbie
Thank you! But my question for 5.56 vs. 300 is more in relation to which cal is better suited for a barrel less than 16", particularly more along the lines of a 7.7"-10.5" barrel?
 
KCBRUIN

KCBRUIN

Amateur
Doug Ramer said:
Thank you! But my question for 5.56 vs. 300 is more in relation to which cal is better suited for a barrel less than 16", particularly more along the lines of a 7.7"-10.5" barrel?
Click to expand...

7.7"-10.5" is a huge spread for barrel length. There's a lot of people smarter than me that think 5.56 should be 11.5" or longer for the best performance. If you want to go sub 11.5" I'd say go .300Blk. I have an 11.5" 5.56 BCM SBR and love it. I'm looking at picking up a 9" .300Blk upper to put on my SBR'd lower to go hog hunting with.
 
Sunshine_Shooter

Sunshine_Shooter

Established
Out of a 7.5" barrel, projectile performance may be a real concern. With the (google-search-sourced) 55 gr 5.56 velocity from a 7.5" barrel being estimated around 2300 fps, Can you trust a standard FMJ to fragment reliably? Most bullet projectiles are designed to operate at certain impact velocities, cutting a 5.56 almost in half WILL affect it's performance. On the other hand, our military has killed a LOT of people with sub-16" 5.56 guns, but they don't use 55 gr either. No chance of exploding an upper with the wrong caliber, though.

Since .300BLK was designed to be most effective out of 8" - 10" barrels, or at least only holds enough powder to be, projectiles loaded in .300BLK are likely to be effective at those lower velocities. Of course all of this goes right out the window if the BLK loads are just .308 Win bullets placed in .300BLK cases with no thought given to operating velocity (which a lot of them look to be). Also, .300BLK subsonic loads are much more common than subsonic 5.56. Some people want Hollywood-quiet guns, others don't care. That's up to you.

In summary: 5.56 performance with lighter grain weights seems to be very velocity-dependent, which suffers in short barrels. This may or may not be a concern to you. .300BLK is theoretically more suited for short barrels, but that could be internet BS.

In the end, I see it like this:
PROS: CONS:
5.56 - caliber commonality between your rifles bullets not at peak performance
.300 - maximize your can's shushness risk of .300BLK in a 5.56 chamber kaboom

I'm also just a guy on the internet so my advice is worth what you paid for it, absolutely nothing.
 
Doug Ramer

Doug Ramer

Newbie
Thank you Sunshine and KC. Some of the things you said are some of the same things I've heard.....that anything under 12" my best bet would be 300BLK.

I very may may do what you suggested and buy a 5.56 upper in the 12" range.

Once I added a suppressor I would still be close to an overall barrel length of 16 " which is my goal to not be longer that a standard AR15.
 
275RLTW

275RLTW

Regular Member
Given the shorter range you intend and use, either caliber would be ok. Obviously 300 would be better suited for hog hunting having much more KE (556 SBR vs 300 Full Boar rounds off Hornady website). Given the cost of 300 being higher, it may limit the amount you can shoot it if 556 is you norm and you already have a supply.

As i implied before, the lower is what is the SBR. Get an upper for both calibers.
 
Doug Ramer

Doug Ramer

Newbie
Has anyone had any experience establishing a NFA Gun Trust through a online website? Or should I just bite the bullet and pay the extra for a local attorney to draw one up? I can get it done for around $130 online.
 
Abuchanan

Abuchanan

Amateur
I did my Trust through Wildcat Trust. Paid I think 25 or 50 bucks or whatever it is, then ran it past my buddy who is a lawyer... he said looks good comparable to a regular trust, though he doesn't specialize in this stuff. I recieved the trust paperwork, along with a schedule A and Schedule B, and a Trust amendment form if i were to ever need it, as well as a guide on filling out NFA trusts and the ATF form 1&4's, as well as copies of forms 1&4 (they are easy to get anyway)... A buddy of mine went through a local dingle dick and didn't get half that stuff, he just got a poorly written maybe 2 page trust outlining the VERYYYYY minimum. Pay a little money and buy a good one.

Now that 41f has taken effect, you will still need fingerprints and photographs of ALL your trustees, whereas before you didnt. What I would suggest is that you find a class 3 dealer that ponied up and purchased the Kiosk, because they can do both the livescan fingerprints and the photgraphs right there in their store, so you don't have to take however many trustees to 3 different places to get your stuff done. Also, that said, i would NOT be listing your granny or cousin whoever as trustee, just a couple people to be on the trust in case you expire, (spouse, child, maybe parent) don't go overboard with trustees. That clouds the process.

Need anything else, let me know.
 
C

chrischris

Amateur
Last I heard you can always add trustees later after your NFA item is approved. Simply amending your trust doesn't require additional prints and photos but you will need them for each trustee at submittal.
 
Abuchanan

Abuchanan

Amateur
chrischris said:
Last I heard you can always add trustees later after your NFA item is approved. Simply amending your trust doesn't require additional prints and photos but you will need them for each trustee at submittal.
Click to expand...
This is true, that's only an amendment to the living trust, all you need is a notary.
 
D

Dave_Thomas

Amateur
Doug Ramer said:
Has anyone had any experience establishing a NFA Gun Trust through a online website? Or should I just bite the bullet and pay the extra for a local attorney to draw one up? I can get it done for around $130 online.
Click to expand...

SilencerCo's EasyTrust is a piece of cake. It's set up in such a way that you input your information, verify it, pay them, print it and notarize it. Done.

We use them quite a bit at the shop I PRN at. We've morphed into a "One-stop shop" place, set up for PP photos, fingerprints, and a notary on site.
 
Doug Ramer

Doug Ramer

Newbie
So here's a question......if I’m the Grantor and the sole Trustee (for now) and I apply for both a SBR and suppressor under the name of the Trust. Then after approval and I have the stamps in hand I decide it maybe a good idea to add my wife as a Trustee. Then a few months later I decide to suppress a .22LR too and maybe even build another SBR.

When applying for the new stamps, do the named Trustees at this point have to get finger printed and such as well? Or is that just upon the initial purchase under a Trust?
 
C

chrischris

Amateur
Doug Ramer said:
So here's a question......if I’m the Grantor and the sole Trustee (for now) and I apply for both a SBR and suppressor under the name of the Trust. Then after approval and I have the stamps in hand I decide it maybe a good idea to add my wife as a Trustee. Then a few months later I decide to suppress a .22LR too and maybe even build another SBR.

When applying for the new stamps, do the named Trustees at this point have to get finger printed and such as well? Or is that just upon the initial purchase under a Trust?
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure once you add trustees you will need prints and photos for additional items. You can always put new items under a new trust. Just edit the name and dates of your trust.
 
Abuchanan

Abuchanan

Amateur
Doug Ramer said:
When applying for the new stamps, do the named Trustees at this point have to get finger printed and such as well? Or is that just upon the initial purchase under a Trust?
Click to expand...
Yes, you will need her to get fingerprinted and photographed to be put on the new application. Here is what the ATF says about adding "responsible persons/trustees," 'Once an application has been approved, no documentation is required to be submitted to ATF when a new responsible person is added to a trust or legal entity. However, should a responsible person change after the application has been submitted, but before it is approved, the applicant or transferee must contact the NFA Branch for guidance.' So what that means is that she wont have to do any paperwork for her on forms already approved on your trust, but she will have to be fingerprinted/photo'ed for each NEW application once she is designated a trustee on your trust. Once again, just as when you create the trust, you will also need a notary to amend the trust, don't just edit a Word Document and call it good because that's not legally binding.

Need anything else let me know!

Edit: I will also clarify, on EACH NEW application on your trust, FP/pics for EACH responsible persons must be inputted along with it.
 
Doug Ramer

Doug Ramer

Newbie
Whats you guys experience with using a heavier buffer, specifically in a SBR?

I've been reading about the KAW Valley Precision buffer kit w/ a heavy tungsten buffer (4.3 oz). Is says the benefits include: increased reliability, reduced wear and tear of critical internal parts, reduction in felt recoil, reduction in bolt bounce, as well as eliminating the annoying "rattle" of standard carbine buffers.

http://www.kawvalleyprecision.com/K...Stock-Completion-Kit-p/kvp-milspeckit-4.3.htm

What buffer kits do you guys prefer?
 
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