Muzzle Devices

Iv always been partial to the A2 flash hider, and think it does its job(flash and dust signature reduction) really well. However, with all the options out there what are some recommendations, or what should one avoid?
 

PM07

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Lets define what you are wanting. Are you looking for a Comp, muzzle break or flash hider? Are you wanting a device to just reduce the flash and dust signature like your A2 or wanting more?
 

pointblank4445

Established
- Flash suppression/signature reduction
- No Accuracy Degradation
- Recoil reduction

Pick 2....

The A2 doesn't get enough credit anymore. It doesn't excel at anything but it does an overall acceptable job without any nasty surprises. I like "upgraded" A2 designs like the old/impossible-to-find Surefire CA556SA or Roger's 6315 at FCD.

Symetrical 3-4 prong design has proven to show excellent flash suppression and little to no perceivable accuracy degradation. Surefire, BE Meyers, SEI Vortex. The cost is the open-tine design (that some don't like) and the "ping"...depending on how you feel about those. Most add a fair amount of length to the gun as well...especially the BE 249F

I've yet to to find a muzzle device that has is a notable recoil reduction but does not come at some heavy cost...be it concussion/gas diversion/dust signature to the shooter, little to no flash reduction, or perceptible accuracy degradation.
 

abro13

Newbie
Here are a few commendations:
• White Sound Defense FOSSA
• Surefire Closed Tine

The White Sound Defense FOSSA 556 is a good contender to the flash hider royale. I owned one for a few years on a 14.5 gun and the fossa provided excellent flash reduction, no tuning fork ringing due to the atypical open tine design and it kept the muzzle in a relatively neutral position.

Currently running a Surefire Closed Tined Warcomp on a 12.5 gun. In comparison to the A2, I’m my opinion it’s a slightly better A2 I can mount a can on.

If you hate ringing flash hiders as much as I do, these are good opinions. Hope this helps
 

pointblank4445

Established
Anything new gen Surefire Closed-tine FH has always sucked for me accuracy wise.
I had several FH556SA's and 212A's that more or less double group size. The one WarcompCT I had showed similar group. I spoke with Wes Grant about this years ago and his results were similar and he would bore out his 212A's and accuracy would improve (also why I feel the CA556SA/CAM4 muzzle devices work well).

It's not the end-all be all of deal breakers but it seems to be a thing others have noticed and if your ultimate goal is bughole groups out of an SPR, they might be avoided.
 

abro13

Newbie
Anything new gen Surefire Closed-tine FH has always sucked for me accuracy wise.
I had several FH556SA's and 212A's that more or less double group size. The one WarcompCT I had showed similar group. I spoke with Wes Grant about this years ago and his results were similar and he would bore out his 212A's and accuracy would improve (also why I feel the CA556SA/CAM4 muzzle devices work well).

It's not the end-all be all of deal breakers but it seems to be a thing others have noticed and if your ultimate goal is bughole groups out of an SPR, they might be avoided.


I don"t have any experience with old gen Surefires, I've used what i recommended above, the A2 and a few muzzle breaks. I'll take your word with a grain of salt and look more into it.
 

shoobe01

Established
Long, long ago, when no one brought an RDS'd gun to class, the instructor had a little experiment at the end of the night shooting time, and we each, in turn, fired our guns while the others watched, to see how various muzzle devices worked. It was even ban period, so we had weird devices and bare muzzles.

Discounting the commercial spec ammo fireballs (we did some ammo trading to get solid results) almost all worked fine. The three prong early AR, and the later AR18 one, both worked as well as the A2 flash hider. Same for similar designs in other guns like the G3 birdcage looking thing. The worst most did, like some Smith brakes and I think the Daewoo, were tiny, tiny cartoonish licks of flame out the ports. So small, we were all pretty sure they wouldn't give you away to downrange bad guys in real life unless very unlucky and fighting in caves, or something.*

Older designs, like the M14, were pretty mediocre. Okay for not blinding the shooter, but some visible flame.

Even with good, flash suppressing powder, mil-acquired ammo, bare muzzles still have a fireball. Commercial ammo is a soccer ball. Carbines are a softball, rifles (20" 5.56 I mean now) baseball sized or a bit smaller. So, the flash hider IS doing a lot of work here.


I am totally happy with my YHM-5M2-QD. Seems to have had no impact on accuracy, side vents only so no dust kicking up, or distorted view, and zero flash on the darkest night. Others are similar like the SF brakes here or here, I am told. But... your friends may hate you if on line at the range. Get a blast can.

I have not seen them much in person, but the current crop of SF flash hiders (or something different here to be confusing) seem very nice. Some people running them on precision rifles. 800 yard precision rifles.


And for real flash suppression... get a suppressor :)


* Though, this was pre-night vision so there's that to think about. Pretty much everything but a suppressor seems to flash a bit under image intensifiers, but... I haven't done a full test as above.
 
Lets define what you are wanting. Are you looking for a Comp, muzzle break or flash hider? Are you wanting a device to just reduce the flash and dust signature like your A2 or wanting more?
really just a general discussion. I just did a barrel swap and figured it was a good time to upgrade or go with the old reliable. I do believe some are to "gamey" as it relates to more 3gun influenced. I am going the more flash reduction route.
 
Long, long ago, when no one brought an RDS'd gun to class, the instructor had a little experiment at the end of the night shooting time, and we each, in turn, fired our guns while the others watched, to see how various muzzle devices worked. It was even ban period, so we had weird devices and bare muzzles.

Discounting the commercial spec ammo fireballs (we did some ammo trading to get solid results) almost all worked fine. The three prong early AR, and the later AR18 one, both worked as well as the A2 flash hider. Same for similar designs in other guns like the G3 birdcage looking thing. The worst most did, like some Smith brakes and I think the Daewoo, were tiny, tiny cartoonish licks of flame out the ports. So small, we were all pretty sure they wouldn't give you away to downrange bad guys in real life unless very unlucky and fighting in caves, or something.*

Older designs, like the M14, were pretty mediocre. Okay for not blinding the shooter, but some visible flame.

Even with good, flash suppressing powder, mil-acquired ammo, bare muzzles still have a fireball. Commercial ammo is a soccer ball. Carbines are a softball, rifles (20" 5.56 I mean now) baseball sized or a bit smaller. So, the flash hider IS doing a lot of work here.


I am totally happy with my YHM-5M2-QD. Seems to have had no impact on accuracy, side vents only so no dust kicking up, or distorted view, and zero flash on the darkest night. Others are similar like the SF brakes here or here, I am told. But... your friends may hate you if on line at the range. Get a blast can.

I have not seen them much in person, but the current crop of SF flash hiders (or something different here to be confusing) seem very nice. Some people running them on precision rifles. 800 yard precision rifles.


And for real flash suppression... get a suppressor :)


* Though, this was pre-night vision so there's that to think about. Pretty much everything but a suppressor seems to flash a bit under image intensifiers, but... I haven't done a full test as above.

I love my suppressor on my 300blk but the additional length on non pistol/SBRs to me is to much of a hinderance vs the benefit.
 

nightchief

Fighter of the Daychief
Would you expand of the 212 FH please. What is the cause of the accuracy degradation? What exactly did you "bore out"?

Thank you
NC

Anything new gen Surefire Closed-tine FH has always sucked for me accuracy wise.
I had several FH556SA's and 212A's that more or less double group size. The one WarcompCT I had showed similar group. I spoke with Wes Grant about this years ago and his results were similar and he would bore out his 212A's and accuracy would improve (also why I feel the CA556SA/CAM4 muzzle devices work well).

It's not the end-all be all of deal breakers but it seems to be a thing others have noticed and if your ultimate goal is bughole groups out of an SPR, they might be avoided.
 

pointblank4445

Established
Would you expand of the 212 FH please. What is the cause of the accuracy degradation? What exactly did you "bore out"?

Thank you
NC

Wes Grant (MSTN) knows more about the "why" than I do.

He gives a rundown of various flash hiders here:
https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Most_Accurate_Flash_suppressor_compensator_brake_/118-406208/


When I asked him (think I still have the email), he said he had the bore of the flash hider opened up. Some of the older Surefires the CA556SA and CAM4556, the "bore" or most constricting part of the muzzle device could pass a 30 cal bullet through it. The FH556SA and 212A have very narrow bores that will only allow a 22 cal bullet. He said his "tweak" was to open/drill out that opening.

IF I had to make an educated guess, that tighter bore in conjunction with the non-symetrical open tine designs of those flash hiders maybe had a similar effect as a bad barrel/inconsistent crown.
 

nightchief

Fighter of the Daychief
Is it only the open tined version? I have a 556-212 can and use the closed tined FH, so I'm curious of it's impact, if any...
Thanks for the link and info.

Wes Grant (MSTN) knows more about the "why" than I do.

He gives a rundown of various flash hiders here:
https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Most_Accurate_Flash_suppressor_compensator_brake_/118-406208/


When I asked him (think I still have the email), he said he had the bore of the flash hider opened up. Some of the older Surefires the CA556SA and CAM4556, the "bore" or most constricting part of the muzzle device could pass a 30 cal bullet through it. The FH556SA and 212A have very narrow bores that will only allow a 22 cal bullet. He said his "tweak" was to open/drill out that opening.

IF I had to make an educated guess, that tighter bore in conjunction with the non-symetrical open tine designs of those flash hiders maybe had a similar effect as a bad barrel/inconsistent crown.
 

WUtah

Member
The BE Meyers 249F flash hider "pings" a lot! In comparison, the Surefire Warcomp gives off almost no noticeable "ping" when firing.

Symetrical 3-4 prong design has proven to show excellent flash suppression and little to no perceivable accuracy degradation. Surefire, BE Meyers, SEI Vortex. The cost is the open-tine design (that some don't like) and the "ping"...depending on how you feel about those. Most add a fair amount of length to the gun as well...especially the BE 249F
 
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