Modern Patrol Rifle

[Chaucer]

Not necessarily a patrol rifle(because I’m not le/mil) but this is what I’d grab if I was allowed to grab 1 of my guns for the rest of time to do everything. The heathen bipod is really slick. Only changes I’m making to this is a quality QD scope mount and upgrade to surefire wml.


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Not a fan of the Aero? I just bought one but haven't mounted yet. $40 in black friday, kinda impulse bought. Your thoughts?

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[PatMcG]

Not necessarily a patrol rifle(because I’m not le/mil) but this is what I’d grab if I was allowed to grab 1 of my guns for the rest of time to do everything. The heathen bipod is really slick. Only changes I’m making to this is a quality QD scope mount and upgrade to surefire wml.


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Not a fan of the Aero? I just bought one but haven't mounted yet. $40 in black friday, kinda impulse bought. Your thoughts?

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It’s fine. Just want qd


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[Grayman]

The heathen bipod system.
To understand the heathen bipod system you have to open your mind to the idea of weight (Or lack thereof) as a design feature. If you buy the heathen expecting a replacement for a standard folding bipod system you will be disappointed. The heathen is specifically designed to offer the stability of a standard bipod without the weight penalty. It's a truly beautiful thing once you understand it's use.

To use the heathen you insert the two detachable legs into the corresponding perpendicular holes in the rail-mounted base. The legs are held in place with integral plastic detents. This works great until it doesn't. (More on this later) The legs store in two additional holes in the rail-mounted base that keep the legs tucked up tight to the rail. Also included are several rubber bands that you can use to keep the foot end of the legs tight to the rail. The feet have hollow protrusions that allow the feet to be attached to each other if you plan to store them as a single unit. (They can be thrown into a pocket or stuffed into a column of mole webbing and will stay together) The protrusions have the added benefit of giving the rubber band something to grab onto. The rail-mounted base also serves as a hand stop and barricade stop with some gnarly teeth on the front that bite well into barricades.

The whole process of freeing the legs and getting them set is anything but quick even with practice. It's not complicated by any stretch of the imagination but it does take some dexterity and clear access to the muzzle end of the gun. I found the easiest way to accomplish the task was to put the gun in high port and roll it inboard to see the bottom of the mount. Pull the legs out of their stowed position and insert them into the bottom holes. Once the legs are in place the bipod functions just like any other bipod you're used to.

After you're done with it you pull the legs out of their holes and you'reback to square one. You can either stow the legs back in their storage holes or pop them together and throw them in a pocket or pouch. However if you plan to use the bipod again I strongly suggest keeping the legs in their deployed position. Save yourself some trouble and just move with it that way.

Now for the downside... I recently used the Heathen for a 3 day DMR class. By the end of day 2 the legs were no longer retained in their deployed position holes. It started slowly but eventually got to a point where the legs would fall out every time the weight of the rifle wasn't holding them in. On the third day, after putting tape on the legs, I actually lost one of the bipod legs during a movement course.

After the course I contacted Heathen and they immediately asked if I had been loading the bipod. I informed them that I always load the bipod and that I am not particularly gentle about it. I was informed that the nature of the retention system doesn't hold up well to being heavily loaded. (The forward force of pushing into the rifle with your shoulder to help control recoil and bipod bounce) The tension created seems to tweak the internal plastic detents causing them to loosen over time. Heathen was not shy about the issue and stated it has been documented. Their suggestion was to limit the amount of force used when loading the bipod and let the weight of the rifle keep the bipod planted. Heathen had a whole new bipod system in my hands within two days. I was very impressed with the way the situation was handled especially given the damage being my fault.

This leads into the other issue, stability. The Heathen bipod does not feel particularly stable when compared to traditional bipods. At first I found this very disconcerting and was constantly worried I was going to bend one of the legs or have the whole thing pop off the rail. The legs are very wide at the base so I wasn't worried about it tipping over but I did notice a lot of flex and twist in the legs. After a short time using the bipod I actually came to appreciate this bit of flex. There is no tilt or swivel to the Heathen but I found that by flexing the legs slightly I was able to get a decent amount of swivel while maintaining stability.

Aside from the retention issue I had no other failures despite a very abusive training environment.

Now for the summary. If you are looking for the perfect patrol rifle bipod your search is over. I can very confidently say that the Heathen bipod has struck that perfect balance of versatility, weight and cost. Sure it isn't as stable as an accu-tac and no it's not as bombproof as one either but it's also only a few ounces and $60 (Their good guy pricing is worth getting signed up for cats). In the days of variable magnification optics, 1,500 lumen weapon lights and MFAL's on every dudes rifle you will appreciate the versatility and respect the weight savings. We are asking more from our weapon systems now then ever before and the Heathen delivers the performance you've been looking for. Plus it doesn't look as stupid as a grip-pod....

 

[Chaucer]

The heathen bipod system.
To understand the heathen bipod system you have to open your mind to the idea of weight (Or lack thereof) as a design feature. If you buy the heathen expecting a replacement for a standard folding bipod system you will be disappointed. The heathen is specifically designed to offer the stability of a standard bipod without the weight penalty. It's a truly beautiful thing once you understand it's use.View attachment 3321

To use the heathen you insert the two detachable legs into the corresponding perpendicular holes in the rail-mounted base. The legs are held in place with integral plastic detents. This works great until it doesn't. (More on this later) The legs store in two additional holes in the rail-mounted base that keep the legs tucked up tight to the rail. Also included are several rubber bands that you can use to keep the foot end of the legs tight to the rail. The feet have hollow protrusions that allow the feet to be attached to each other if you plan to store them as a single unit. (They can be thrown into a pocket or stuffed into a column of mole webbing and will stay together) The protrusions have the added benefit of giving the rubber band something to grab onto. The rail-mounted base also serves as a hand stop and barricade stop with some gnarly teeth on the front that bite well into barricades.View attachment 3323

The whole process of freeing the legs and getting them set is anything but quick even with practice. It's not complicated by any stretch of the imagination but it does take some dexterity and clear access to the muzzle end of the gun. I found the easiest way to accomplish the task was to put the gun in high port and roll it inboard to see the bottom of the mount. Pull the legs out of their stowed position and insert them into the bottom holes. Once the legs are in place the bipod functions just like any other bipod you're used to.

After you're done with it you pull the legs out of their holes and you'reback to square one. You can either stow the legs back in their storage holes or pop them together and throw them in a pocket or pouch. However if you plan to use the bipod again I strongly suggest keeping the legs in their deployed position. Save yourself some trouble and just move with it that way.View attachment 3324

Now for the downside... I recently used the Heathen for a 3 day DMR class. By the end of day 2 the legs were no longer retained in their deployed position holes. It started slowly but eventually got to a point where the legs would fall out every time the weight of the rifle wasn't holding them in. On the third day, after putting tape on the legs, I actually lost one of the bipod legs during a movement course.

After the course I contacted Heathen and they immediately asked if I had been loading the bipod. I informed them that I always load the bipod and that I am not particularly gentle about it. I was informed that the nature of the retention system doesn't hold up well to being heavily loaded. (The forward force of pushing into the rifle with your shoulder to help control recoil and bipod bounce) The tension created seems to tweak the internal plastic detents causing them to loosen over time. Heathen was not shy about the issue and stated it has been documented. Their suggestion was to limit the amount of force used when loading the bipod and let the weight of the rifle keep the bipod planted. Heathen had a whole new bipod system in my hands within two days. I was very impressed with the way the situation was handled especially given the damage being my fault.

This leads into the other issue, stability. The Heathen bipod does not feel particularly stable when compared to traditional bipods. At first I found this very disconcerting and was constantly worried I was going to bend one of the legs or have the whole thing pop off the rail. The legs are very wide at the base so I wasn't worried about it tipping over but I did notice a lot of flex and twist in the legs. After a short time using the bipod I actually came to appreciate this bit of flex. There is no tilt or swivel to the Heathen but I found that by flexing the legs slightly I was able to get a decent amount of swivel while maintaining stability.

Aside from the retention issue I had no other failures despite a very abusive training environment.

Now for the summary. If you are looking for the perfect patrol rifle bipod your search is over. I can very confidently say that the Heathen bipod has struck that perfect balance of versatility, weight and cost. Sure it isn't as stable as an accu-tac and no it's not as bombproof as one either but it's also only a few ounces and $60 (Their good guy pricing is worth getting signed up for cats). In the days of variable magnification optics, 1,500 lumen weapon lights and MFAL's on every dudes rifle you will appreciate the versatility and respect the weight savings. We are asking more from our weapon systems now then ever before and the Heathen delivers the performance you've been looking for. Plus it doesn't look as stupid as a grip-pod....

Thanks for the info, good stuff.

So despite the durability issues you still would recommend? I think I'd be much more disheartened by that issue.

My takeaway from your review seems like it has a small niche but fills it well. Not a DMR, not for precision use, but just a simple option for added stability that has little downside.

Also, if you'd like a laugh, google Fab Defense AR Podium. Its like starship troopers grip-pod.

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[PatMcG]

Yep my heathen stopped holding the legs in right away


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[Mike_IA]

Why would you heathen? If you need a bit of stability then mono pod off the mag and or use sling tension. If you need a bipod get a bipod with a good QD Mount- Magpul ARMs with ADM or modify a harris or go full Atlas. When you need a bipod clip it on the rest of the time carry it in a bag or pouch.

Also loading a bipod is a thing for fast follow up shots and running a stabilized gas gun. If you have a bipod like thing that you can’t load into its useless.

Did you have troubles with the legs digging in? On loose ground the one I played with would dig in.

 

[PatMcG]

Why would you heathen? If you need a bit of stability then mono pod off the mag and or use sling tension. If you need a bipod get a bipod with a good QD Mount- Magpul ARMs with ADM or modify a harris or go full Atlas. When you need a bipod clip it on the rest of the time carry it in a bag or pouch.

Also loading a bipod is a thing for fast follow up shots and running a stabilized gas gun. If you have a bipod like thing that you can’t load into its useless.

Did you have troubles with the legs digging in? On loose ground the one I played with would dig in.

My reason was I was getting a handstop/barricade stop anyway so might as well be multi purpose. Legs take up zero space unlike stowing a qd bipod. Its more stable than a magpod. For a DM gun, I wouldn’t use it. For a gun that’s 99.99% run and gun it does what it’s advertised to do. It’s absolutely niche item


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[pointblank4445]

Why would you heathen? If you need a bit of stability then mono pod off the mag and or use sling tension. If you need a bipod get a bipod with a good QD Mount- Magpul ARMs with ADM or modify a harris or go full Atlas. When you need a bipod clip it on the rest of the time carry it in a bag or pouch.

I'm kinda with you on this one.

I'm not going to shit-talk the Heathen because I've never had one, but the reason that is so is because of the GripPod and all the other half-assed psudo-pods before it taught me that you are a bipod or you aren't. If you can't do bipod stuff like load/take pressure and be adjusted to my needs...you're no good to me; you're just something to hold a gun for IG pics. Sometimes you gotta take that penalty of a QD Atlas (Bonus: it gives you a second impact weapon too!)

On this note, I think a lot of guys don't know what they don't know about building up good shooting positions and utilizing everyday objects that can be used as a pseudo bag or a rest. That was a MAJOR "learning occurred" moment for me in my long-rifle game was being introduced to that stuff.

...that whole hardware solutions to software problems thing again.

 

[Grayman]

The reality for most patrol rifles is that they need all of the capability but none of the weight. The Heathen gives you the ability to bring bipod function at the weight penalty of a regular foregrip.

The idea of carrying a separate bipod in a bag with a QD mount sounds great but invariably you won't grab that bag in a hurry to bail out with your gun. And the all or nothing "if you can't load it it's useless" mindset is a bit extreme. All equipment has limitations and when someone comes up with a better more versatile design I'll switch to it.

The Heathen is by no means perfect and the issues I had are clearly systemic but I still don't think there is a better option. The entire idea behind a design like the Heathen is versatility and in that regard I think they pretty well nailed it. Is there room to improve? Of course there is, but that's true of any product.

 

[Mike_IA]

We can spend hours chatting about the “bail out and don’t have time to grab gear so everything needs to be on me or my gun” fallacy. Even on barricaded subject calls you can get comfy with the rifle and make it work if you don’t grab a bag when you grab your rifle- would a bipod be better? Probably but I can work without. And honestly on barricade calls a water bottle and protein bar are my third and forth grabs after my rifle and plates.

If you are bailing out to a fight and don’t have time to grab plates or a sustainment bag you probably will be in a fight before you can erector set your gun or need a bipod. If things stabilize then you make due or get rotated out to appropriately equip.

Even with a ton of rural ops time I would benefit from a bipod maybe 2-5% of the time, that’s it.

I want to like the heathen, it would be useful but for supposed weight savings there are a ton of compromises being made- legs have to be banded to the stock, legs don’t pivot, legs fall off when you move positions with it deployed, can’t load into it, doesn’t adjust for unlevel terrain, legs icepick into the ground, legs can tamper with your grip on slim rails. All for $80-100.

I mean a standard non-swivel harris was a mainstay of mine weighed less than 12ounces, and can be had for $70-$80. For the harris I compromised- weight (but it’s in the Magpul bipod weight class), less than ideal attachment (it would work loose and wasn’t quick on or off), and wasn’t as fast adjusting to unlevel terrain (had to adjust leg height not just swivel).

 

[MOT]

As an alternative to the heathen does Pat Mac’s sling ding thing have any merit? Curious to know what y’all think, I have no experience with either.

 

[pointblank4445]

As an alternative to the heathen does Pat Mac’s sling ding thing have any merit? Curious to know what y’all think, I have no experience with either.

If you like to run your front attachment point as far up as Pat does and you're looking for a more versatile barricade stop concept, sure.

 

[krax]

As an alternative to the heathen does Pat Mac’s sling ding thing have any merit? Curious to know what y’all think, I have no experience with either.

It works as advertised, but I found that I could get maybe 75% of its functionality by either just grabbing the sling or wrapping it around my fist. In recent videos, it's not on Pat's guns and I think that's an indicator.

 

[ericimo]

Concerning optics for a patrol rifle.. I know the flavor of the day is LPVO, but I figure *most* engagements would be well within 100yds. At least more so than 100-200 yds. In my area especially, about the only place you have LOS past that is cleared land... usually cleared for a rifle range

Every choice has compromises. Scopes on 1x are fast acquisition compared to magnified, but still not as fast as a reflex. A reflex is just more forgiving with its lack of any perceptible scope box, infinite eye relief, and FOV compared to a scope.

My humble reasoning is a reflex with or without magnifier is more advantageous if you expect more close than intermediate threats whereas a LPVO is the better choice if you are more likely to experience threats at intermediate distances.

 

[Wake27]

Concerning optics for a patrol rifle.. I know the flavor of the day is LPVO, but I figure *most* engagements would be well within 100yds. At least more so than 100-200 yds. In my area especially, about the only place you have LOS past that is cleared land... usually cleared for a rifle range

Every choice has compromises. Scopes on 1x are fast acquisition compared to magnified, but still not as fast as a reflex. A reflex is just more forgiving with its lack of any perceptible scope box, infinite eye relief, and FOV compared to a scope.

My humble reasoning is a reflex with or without magnifier is more advantageous if you expect more close than intermediate threats whereas a LPVO is the better choice if you are more likely to experience threats at intermediate distances.

RDS and magnifier will have more parallax though. And many people are just as fast with an LPVO, assuming you spend the money to get a good one.


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[user12358]

I know the flavor of the day is LPVO, but I figure *most* engagements would be well within 100yds. At least more so than 100-200 yds. In my area especially, about the only place you have LOS past that is cleared land... usually cleared for a rifle range

You don't have roads in your area? Usually they have LOS well past 200 yards.

A well built LPVO is just as fast up close and in unconventional positions as a red dot but can provide you much greater precision than a red dot (without the zero shift issues of a magnifier) even inside 100 yards. I would put some time in on a serious LPVO if you believe they are just the flavor of the day, the only area where they noticeably lag behind a dot or holo is passive aiming under NODs.

 

[pointblank4445]

Concerning optics for a patrol rifle.. I know the flavor of the day is LPVO, but I figure *most* engagements would be well within 100yds. At least more so than 100-200 yds. In my area especially, about the only place you have LOS past that is cleared land... usually cleared for a rifle range

Every choice has compromises. Scopes on 1x are fast acquisition compared to magnified, but still not as fast as a reflex. A reflex is just more forgiving with its lack of any perceptible scope box, infinite eye relief, and FOV compared to a scope.

My humble reasoning is a reflex with or without magnifier is more advantageous if you expect more close than intermediate threats whereas a LPVO is the better choice if you are more likely to experience threats at intermediate distances.

There is a HUGE myth about "mo magnification is only justified by mo distanc"....that's totally not true. You gotta get outta that space.

A 6 year old playing dodgeball knows that there's merit to slipping behind the fat kid....novices may not understand cover v. concealment but they know to hiding behind stuff is legit. The LPVO in the US is not about smoking a dude in an open field at a quarter mile. It can also be about busting off a piece of a dude at 70 before he fully breaks cover. If you don't believe me, hear it from Chuck:

About 6 or 7 years ago, my lowly little 1.1-4x saved my and my partner's collective asses when my 4x could allow me to see movement behind a barely ajar door at 35 yards that my partner's EOTech couldn't see. 6 months later, I saved my team from a bad approach by noticing a heavy padlock from 50 yards out on chained gate that didn't show up in the recon photos.

 

[ericimo]

Don't get me wrong. I overstated with the "flavor of the day" comment. LVPO's are incredibly versatile. I just feel like some see them as the be-all/end-all optic. That there's not a better optic for literally any situation save for LRP shooting. I've got one HB rifle I need a new LVPO to replace my USMC-spec RCO ACOG as I've grown to prefer LVPO over fixed.

I simply have found myself faster to acquire with a reflex especially when it's awkward to get proper eye position behind a scope, and found I need 1x a lot more often than magnification for most shots. I still like the magnifier option (which are now available with 6x from some makes!) for myself. But every optic setup has its limitations. Every choice is a compromise.

 

[Grayman]

Someone way wiser than I once said, "Mission drives the gear train." Clearly there are circumstances where an RDS is better suited than a LPVO. With that being said I have found the added capability that comes with the LPVO is absolutely priceless.

If haven't already, try a truly daytime bright illuminated LPVO and at least a 1.93" height mount (2.04" is even better), I think you'll see the trade off up close is negligible.

Don't get me wrong. I overstated with the "flavor of the day" comment. LVPO's are incredibly versatile. I just feel like some see them as the be-all/end-all optic. That there's not a better optic for literally any situation save for LRP shooting. I've got one HB rifle I need a new LVPO to replace my USMC-spec RCO ACOG as I've grown to prefer LVPO over fixed.

I simply have found myself faster to acquire with a reflex especially when it's awkward to get proper eye position behind a scope, and found I need 1x a lot more often than magnification for most shots. I still like the magnifier option (which are now available with 6x from some makes!) for myself. But every optic setup has its limitations. Every choice is a compromise.

 

[jwr_patriot]

No magnifying optics allowed at all.

Is this a common trend with LEO agencies? I’d be interested in the reasoning behind this policy...if there is any.