Modcast appreciation thread

Smith

Regular Member
I've been really impressed by some of the recent podcasts. Love the long-form discussion from experienced panel members. Chuck on Ukraine and that other gentleman (National Guard? Sorry, don't recall his name). Or the cops on the recent Qualified Immunity episode. I had bought all the media stuff on QI and now I feel lied to, lol.

Keep up the good stuff!
 

Smith

Regular Member
Guess this is just going to be my Modcast comment thread from now. Feel free to chime in if you listened to one and have something to say. Also feel free to tell me to STFU.

Just listened to the one on cops/use of force and somebody brought up people saying "Is it ok if I reach into my pocket?" I have literally practiced taking my wallet out slowly and without making sudden movements. I don't know a single cop personally. I met a few former cops once at the range. 100% of my "how to interact with cops" knowledge is from movies and the news. I'm probably not an exception.
 
In regards to the QI, the truth is somewhere in the middle. You have the police side (matt and such) and the public. I wouldn't take matts words as the absolute. He is bias towards his profession and is dismissive of countering points (matt is not above insulting those who disagree with him). Just my observations.

IMO, keep posting, that is what forums are about. Is to post your thoughts and feelings on subjects.
 

MuskokaJoe

Newbie
Really enjoyed the Modcasts the OP mentioned, and especially enjoyed Lee Weens on lever guns in the latest one. Would really like to listen/watch a miscast specifically on lever guns. I had lots of questions. Awesome stuff
 

Smith

Regular Member
Can't believe I just listened to 2 hours of case law :)

Suggestion for future modcasts: opinions on victimless crimes? Which ones are, which ones aren't?
 

Simms65

Shenanigans!
Staff member
Administrator
In regards to the QI, the truth is somewhere in the middle. You have the police side (matt and such) and the public. I wouldn't take matts words as the absolute. He is bias towards his profession and is dismissive of countering points (matt is not above insulting those who disagree with him). Just my observations.

IMO, keep posting, that is what forums are about. Is to post your thoughts and feelings on subjects.
Did you actually listen to the modcast? Your statements are telling me you didn't. Please prove me wrong.
 
Did you actually listen to the modcast? Your statements are telling me you didn't. Please prove me wrong.
It was an echo chamber, I could get six used car salesmen and ask their opinion, then state it as fact and say the public is wrong on their perceptions. I would think you agree, that HVAC comparison, one of the cops tried to make. Was quite idiotic and wrong.
 

Simms65

Shenanigans!
Staff member
Administrator
Ah, so comparing QI to the same thing as a private employer covering the civil liability an employee may generate through no fault or improper action of their own isn't similar?

QI is to exempt a public employee from civil liability provided they:
1. Act lawfully.
2. Act according to policy (in the majority of places).
3. Act reasonably based upon the circumstances.

It does not protect a public employee from criminal or civil liability if they act in an improper/illegal manner.

As usual with QI discussions, the people who decry it do not understand what it actually is.
 

Smith

Regular Member
I thought the HVAC analogy was pretty good, just in showing that people can make honest mistakes in all jobs, even policing. Of course the mistakes in policing often have more dramatic effects than in HVAC installing, unless you drop a unit onto somebody's head to kill them. But expecting the humans (!) who do police work to be perfect robots who never make mistakes under stress is unrealistic, and if the alternative is no policing, that's bad.

That doesn't mean we can't have a conversation about what's "reasonable" and what's an "honest mistake."
 
Ah, so comparing QI to the same thing as a private employer covering the civil liability an employee may generate through no fault or improper action of their own isn't similar?

QI is to exempt a public employee from civil liability provided they:
1. Act lawfully.
2. Act according to policy (in the majority of places).
3. Act reasonably based upon the circumstances.

It does not protect a public employee from criminal or civil liability if they act in an improper/illegal manner.

As usual with QI discussions, the people who decry it do not understand what it actually is.
It is not, and you are not looking at the whole picture either.

Lets compare a bit more. Where do the police get their funding? The taxpayers, who does the police hurt when they make a mistake? The Taxpayers (essentially, the one who they caused damages to). When a company has to pay damages, the company has to pay of out its pocket. They do depend on customers, so people have the choice to support them or not. When the police make a mistake, it is the taxpayers who pay (yes the insurance companies, most of the time, it is taxpayer money used to pay for that policy) and they do not have the choice to stop paying taxes.

The HVAC to police is an apple to oranges comparison.

Here is another difference, if an employee acts outside the scope of "reasonableness" vs issue by deciding that a right is not clearly established without first determining a constitutional violation. Which I see you do not have in your bullet points there.

While you are going with a very broad way to generalize, you are disregarding the differences between the two.
 
I do dislike the 5 minutes to edit here.

In conclusion, the police do have a higher protection from lawsuits than that of a company/employer. Comparing a company to a government entity is silly. If and when they have be found to be in the wrong, the burden is placed differently. That is why I found that example to idiotic, the standards are different between the two and a HVAC company is not comparable to a police department.
 

Smith

Regular Member
Sure it's not a perfect apples to apples comparison. But surely it's understandable that even people employed by the government, paid for by the taxpayer, and given special rights (like pulling me over :) ) can make honest mistakes. I think that's what the analogy was supposed to show. Yea, in many ways, the police are not like HVAC installers and the government is not like a private company. But they're all staffed by humans, and humans make honest mistakes.
 
I understand about mistakes being made. I believe police should be held to a high standard, and seeing how QI plays out, that isn't holding the ones who make these mistakes to that level. A hvac company doesn't have a stipulation in court, to where they can be immune unless that right has been clearly established. Meaning, unless there is a case with the same details out there, QI can be imposed.

Which is why I find it funny, people like the admin here, assumed on what I had issues with the comparison. Instead of asking and discussing, he goes for "As usual with QI discussions, the people who decry it do not understand what it actually is." while he is actually showing how little he knows concerning the subject. I am finding that to be a common theme among the "staff" on this forum.

There needs to be a clear law regarding the subject, not case law. For the interpretations have changed and it needs to be one set standard. I feel a baseline needs to be, if a citizen can be charged for their actions, so should the police.
 

Simms65

Shenanigans!
Staff member
Administrator
You're continuing to show a lack of understanding for the topic. A law broken is a law broken and QI has ZERO bearing on criminal charges regarding laws broken. QI is entirely about civil liability.

I already said as such in my previous comment. I'm not sure if it didn't make sense to you or if you chose not to acknowledge what has already been explained.
 
There is such a thing as civil charges, If I meant criminal charges, I would have written criminal charges. I didn't feel the need to write that, for the context of my multiple posts were of civil liability.

Is that what you based your response on Simms?

If this helps, I will change just two words.

I feel a baseline needs to be, if a citizen can be found liable for their actions, so should the police.
 
I appreciate the sheer length of the episodes. I'll download a few and listen to them on the way to work, during work and on the way home. Really enjoy the information put out on these from the panelists. A lot of explaining of whats, hows and whys on the topics being discussed
 

Smith

Regular Member
Yea, it's like Joe Rogan but about a single gun topic :) The depth and various personal anecdotes are great. Some topics just can't be handled in a 15 minute clip that contains 13 minutes of B-roll of drone footage from the range in slow motion.
 

Smith

Regular Member
Man, I listened to the modcast guys talk about SROs literally 1-2 days before the Texas thing happened. Talking about how sometimes you get a guy in there who's more of a desk jockey. And sometimes you get an older wolf who's still hungry.

And the crazy thing is, almost every day the situation of what the cops/CBP/SRO did (or if an SRO even existed?!) seems to flip around. The fog of war is crazy on this. I see people condemning X or Y party and the next day it turns out that person literally didn't exist or wasn't there. And the narrative completely flips. Let's keep calm despite the emotions.

Really appreciate the recent front page posts on this, too. What a tragedy.
 
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